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Woman of the Decade
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Posted - Mar 27 2018 : 1:00PM
.
 
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Posted - Mar 27 2018 : 11:02PM
^^^^, ^^^, ^^
I'm not going to get into an abstract discussion of the degree to which childhood (or teenage) is a social construct. My point was (and is) that young people– whatever you call them– have always been relevant.
actively engaged children, who often became the public face of the movement. Frederick Douglass was 16 when he beat up the "slave breaker" who was supposed to beat him into submission, was 20 when he wrote himself a pass and jumped on a train to freedom, and was 19, was preaching by the age of 20, and was speaking for abolitionism by 21.
Maybe the young people who went to Spain to fight fascism in the 30s didn't think of themselves as "youth" or "teenagers", but they were NOT irrelevant.
As for the point about voting age: Would you argue that women were irrelevant before suffrage or that southern blacks were irrelevant until the Voting Rights Act passed?
 
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Posted - Mar 27 2018 : 11:20PM
I can sympathize with the argument, and will add a point he didn't make. I think has a valid point when she argues that the well-regulated militias referred to in the amendment were in fact racist vigilantes perpetuating genocide against Native peoples (and to a lesser degree African Americans).
That said, I would hesitate to follow his advice. The Bill of Rights plays an important role within American society. I can't imagine a repeal of any of the first ten amendments through the normal Amendment process. So the only remote possibility might be as part of a negotiation in the case of an Article V Convention. In the current political climate, such a convention would probably include a number of changes that I would strongly oppose.
 
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Posted - Mar 27 2018 : 11:45PM
^^
Well of course, but I also don't think it's anyone here discounting them. I think its the arrogant elite that are under estimating their power.
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Posted - Mar 28 2018 : 3:18AM
The right to bear arms came over with the English settlers, it wasn't invented in the New World. The inclusion of the 'well-regulated militia' in the language of the amendment is open to interpretation, however, the Supreme Court has made it irrelevant as a matter of law.
As to Dunbar-Ortiz point, yes, there was a clash of cultures, along with a heaping dose of willful ignorance on the part of Europeans, when it came to land ownership and property rights in the "New World". That being so, conflict was inevitable.
 
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Literotica.com - grover10
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Posted - Mar 28 2018 : 9:51AM

Senior Member

tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
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Posted - Mar 28 2018 : 8:58PM
A couple of weeks ago, I came across posted by a random person.
Wow. A little condescending with the description of what a letter is, and the bit about 'your stupid phone.' It doesn't sound as if he likes students that much.
But, that's not the main problem. This was my reply to the guy who posted it:
I --ahem -- seemed to be blocked now by the random guy. I guess he didn't really want to stimulate a discussion of any kind.
Anyway, was just printed by the NYT. I heard some of it on the news this morning, but, um, paywall. Someone please feel free to post some of it here. I will read it in full in April, I guess.

Edited by - Pieps on 3/28/2018 8:58:42 PM

 
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Posted - Mar 28 2018 : 9:45PM
MOD:
You can't reprint entire articles, that is a violation of copyright.
Edited by - Flash on 3/30/2018 11:16:20 AM

Senior Member

tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
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Posted - Mar 28 2018 : 10:04PM
Thank you!
That was one point I might have gone back to make -- I was thinking how important it is for children to be able to trust their intuition: to run away from danger and not try to conform to some norm of politeness. Trust your gut when you are creeped out, and get away.
I doubt that the author of the original "Don't walk out" piece would ever have advised any 15-year-old daughter of his own to seek out the unlikeable, creepy loner. Might as well tell her to get in the elevator of an underground parking garage at night with a strange man who is making her uncomfortable.
Over the years, I've read heartbreaking accounts of people who adopted slightly older than infant kids and tried to make a secure life for them, unsuccessfully because the kids were already so damaged at such a young age. When I was teaching young grade school kids, some were 'too far gone' in second grade, and nothing seemed to help. It's glib to think that there's some kind of simple solution. It's not a commercial, where you offer a stick of gum, and then everything is rainbows and sunshine.
It's not the responsibility of kids to befriend, or fix, anyone. We can reasonably hold them to a standard of not teasing and picking on other kids. But they get to pick their own friends. Just like we do.
 
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BOYCOTT JAMES DEEN - BOYCOTT COMPANIES THAT BOOK HIM OR SELL HIS WORK. YES, IT'S THAT BLACK & WHITE.
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Posted - Mar 28 2018 : 10:57PM
^
You really have to laugh, or loath, how quickly the ADULTS shift the blame to the kids, thus relieving them of the responsibility.
 
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Posted - Mar 29 2018 : 12:06AM
I may look at American history differently than you do. What happened here wasn't genocide.
What happened to the Jews in Europe was genocide. What happened to the Armenians was Genocide. What happened to the Roma was genocide. What happened to the Abenaki, Apache, Arapaho, Arikara, Assiniboine,Bannock,Bella Coola, Caddo, Cayuse, Cherokee, etc. is mass genocide.
As for whether the context of mass genocide offers insight into the history of guns and violence in American Law and society, I doubt the story is simple.
As for your comment about the English roots of the second amendment: I don't doubt that the complex issues surrounding race, genocide, and guns have roots in Europe. I haven't read the book, but I know that Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz is knowledgeable about European history. She is of mixed heritage, including both Native American and Scots-Irish. While she generally focuses on Native American issues, I have heard her contextualize the American experience by referencing the (forceful) enclosure of the Commons and the resulting landlessness in the British Isles. Anyone with even a passing familiarity with British history will understand that what we call racism in America isn't just about black, red, and white; it is also about green and orange. You know more about the right to bear arms in 17th century Britain than I do, but I'm ready to guess it wasn't a right enjoyed by Irish Catholics.
No doubt, the "well regulate militia" clause is open to interpretation. Still, I know this: It wasn't referring to the right of African-Americans or American-Americans to secure their freedom.
 
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Posted - Mar 29 2018 : 1:35AM
Per Wikipedia's article on the subject...
So, no mention of the Irish, but there were certainly elements of religious and political strife behind the enactment of the English Bill of Rights.
 
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Posted - Mar 30 2018 : 11:17AM
MOD:
Articles can't be reprinted in full here. That is a violation of copyright law.

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tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
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Posted - Mar 30 2018 : 12:16PM
Here are some bits from the article:
Edit to add my commentary on the article (also found above):
Edited by - Pieps on 3/30/2018 1:04:51 PM
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Golden Age Classic

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Posted - Mar 30 2018 : 12:31PM
. I am not a copyright lawyer but I suspect even your use of the bulk of the article without commentary would be in violation.

Senior Member

tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
6974 Posts
11/13
Posted - Mar 30 2018 : 1:07PM
This is my other comments on the article, also posted above:
Edited by - Pieps on 3/30/2018 1:10:56 PM
 
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Woman of the Decade
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Posted - Mar 30 2018 : 2:23PM

 
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Woman of the Decade
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Posted - Mar 31 2018 : 1:47AM
Laura Ingraham was getting raked across the coals for her slander on Parkland Student David Hogg ....
...and look at this...
Edited by - Smiler Grogan on 3/31/2018 1:47:59 AM
 
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Posted - Mar 31 2018 : 10:03AM
I assume that you understand that the struggle in Ireland was largely framed in religious terms.
So it seems similar to what happened here. Some people were 'allowed' to arm themselves and were encouraged to organize into militias, and others weren't.
Do you see how this seems like a recipe for genocide?
 
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Posted - Mar 31 2018 : 10:44AM
^ Can we assume that the justification,"Papists were both Armed and Imployed contrary to Law" refers specifically to the Irish? I'm not well enough read on the subject to know if that's so or not, but yes, when it comes to relations between the English nobility and the Irish the indifference of Parliament to the Irish suffering during the potato famine really says it all.
 
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BOYCOTT JAMES DEEN - BOYCOTT COMPANIES THAT BOOK HIM OR SELL HIS WORK. YES, IT'S THAT BLACK & WHITE.
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Posted - Mar 31 2018 : 2:45PM
^
So true, Zero Fucks Given.
Edited by - FlacFan on 3/31/2018 3:22:27 PM

Senior Member

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Posted - Apr 2 2018 : 6:39AM
^^^ The right to bear arms in England wasn't an Irish issue but more of a general approach to Catholics in general. As far back as the 12th century citizens pretty much had to bear arms in case the King needed a militia in a hurry.
After the Civil War in the 17th century, the victorious Parliamentarians (or Republicans if you like), a Protestant army whose suspicion of Charles 1's marriage to a Catholic had led them to believe that the King's views were becoming too sympathetic to the Catholic church, imposed a temporary military government and it was that body that authorised the seizing of all arms belonging to Catholics. Subsequently the Bill of Rights (this was after the monarchy had been restored) included the right of Protestants to "have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law." No mention of guns.
Strife between Catholics and Protestants was a feature of European history and an influencing factor in virtually every conflict around that time. It wasn't just an England/Ireland thing. England was far more worried about Spain.
 
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Posted - Apr 2 2018 : 9:41AM
^
 
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Literotica.com - grover10
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Posted - Apr 5 2018 : 5:24PM

Amazing! Way to go, Deerfield!
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Posted - Apr 20 2018 : 3:48PM
 
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Literotica.com - grover10
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Posted - Apr 20 2018 : 3:57PM

The Leaders of tomorrow! These young people understand! The is what #therealMAGA looks like!
 
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Woman of the Decade
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Posted - Apr 23 2018 : 6:45PM
James Shaw. A Good Guy Without a Gun.
James Shaw.jpg
James Shaw ran right up to Travis Jeffrey Reinking after he opened fire with his AR-15 inside a Waffle House in Antioch, TN and took it from him.
 
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Woman of the Decade
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Posted - Apr 23 2018 : 6:52PM
Travis Jeffrey Reinking has had MULTIPLE incidents with police.
Read more here. [link inactive:404 - Page not found]He's been arrested at the White House, has a Taylor Swift obsession* and was suicidal. This is someone who should have been in a proper mental hospital long before now.
*

Senior Member

2886 Posts
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Posted - Apr 26 2018 : 9:16PM
If he had a gun, do you think this guy who demonstrated he had the guts to physically tackle an armed shooter, but wouldn't have had the guts to just shoot the shooter dead before the shooter could have killed more than 1 person?
It takes nothing away from Travis who is indeed a hero, in effect if not by intention (by his own admission), to point out the obvious which is that had Travis been armed, he could have even more easily neutralized the shooter, who instead got away and, at the time, who knew if a psycho like that wouldn't have had access to more guns and been willing to go on and kill more people?
Also, what's ironic about this case is that if the shooter was armed with almost any other gun, he would have been harder to take down. You need 2 arms to operate the AR-15. In a cramped situation such as Waffle House, this gun which pedestrian pundits makes out to be some magical unstoppable uber-weapon (what Stephen King called a "WMD") was actually significantly less ideal than say, any garden variety semi-automatic pistol - which account for the overwhelming majority of guns used in mass shooting. Something like 83% of mass shootings are carried out with handguns.
If this shooter has a handgun, it would have been much harder to tackle and disarm him. The mobility of a handgun makes it much easier to shoot a person up close.
So the irony here is that it is actually quite fortunate that this shooter chose the AR-15 rather than, say, a standard 9mm handgun. And if Travis or any other bystander or customer at the Waffle House had even just a small pistol, they would have been better equipped to take the shooter down.
If pointing to the rare instances when a "good guy with a gun" stops the bad guy with the gun is a weak argument, it certainly makes an even weaker argument still to cite the EXTREMELY rare instance when an good guy WITHOUT a gun stops a bad guy with a gun.
I'm sick of seeing retards mock the "good guy with a gun" argument, but then prop up something which is even more extremely rare. That's great. Let's keep relying on the most extremely remote chances of unarmed people stopping bad guys with "weapons of mass destruction."
Brilliant.
Just like pushing that dream of ever expanding "gun free zones" with ZERO armed security, which just makes the easiest target imaginable for anyone who wants to do harm, which is how you got the Parkland massacre. There is no dumber idea conceivable than a gun-free zone with masses of people and ZERO armed security. What this says is your government quite literally believes you are not to be trusted with protecting your own life and at the same time you are not worth the cost of protecting.
There are at least 50,000 instances of defensive gun use EVERY YEAR. That is the LOWEST estimate, while the high end estimate from the CDC is in the millions. Millions of instances of lives being protected by defensive gun use.
But yall can keep hanging your hat on the 1 in a million odds of a bad guy getting to shoot up a lot of people who are 99.999% unarmed to push your propaganda, while praising the 1 in 100 million chance of being unarmed and able to stop a shooter - which in no way whatsoever challenges the plain as day obvious truth that said unarmed hero would still be better off armed.

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Posted - Apr 26 2018 : 9:28PM
When it comes to this issue, no one out there has as good a grasp on the flaws of the system as well as the flaws in the logic of activists as this amateur journalist

I would love to know what questions someone might have after listening to this. "Nuance Bro" is as objective, honest and polite as any inquisitive mind on the matter.

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Posted - Apr 26 2018 : 9:48PM
Are you kidding?
The police shoot black guys who have a cell phone in their hands. What do you guess they do when it's an actual gun?
Strutting around with a gun, even in an open carry state, is a privilege reserved for white people.
If that guy had a gun (even if he was white) -- and this is only one of the frequently mentioned complications -- the police would be likely to show up at the site of a reported mass shooting, see a guy with a gun, and shoot him. It's one of the problems raised with the idea of arming teachers.
At the Gabby Giffords shooting, there was a good guy there with a gun. He didn't use it. He said afterward that he was glad he didn't. Someone had already disarmed the shooter, and he would have shot the good guy who had taken the gun away from the shooter.
So, when good guys are trying to help, they shoot anybody holding a gun. That could be the cops shooting a good guy, or some other good guy shooting a good guy.
And that leaves out the myriad of other problems, including untrained people accidentally shooting bystanders while aiming at the shooter.

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Posted - Apr 27 2018 : 6:00AM
^ Are there any examples in the US, police and home invasions aside, of an armed member of the public shooting an armed criminal to stop him/her shooting someone else?
And on the 'good guy with a gun' issue, how many of those committing mass shootings had no criminal record? Before committing a shooting spree, a person with no criminal history might be regarded as a 'good guy'; otherwise, how do you define a 'good guy'?
 
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Woman of the Decade
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Posted - Apr 28 2018 : 3:59AM
:
At no time have I ever said we need to take all guns away from people. I've also never said guns don't work in cases of home invasions, etc.
What I'm saying -- and in the "What's Wrong With Cops"-thread I've got numerous examples -- is that Wayne LaPierre's dream of everybody packing heat 24/7, even while asleep -- is not always necessary.
And you say "what if James Shaw had a gun and had shot Travis Reinking. Well, sure, that's a scenario. You know what else is? That Shaw shoots Reinking and right after that, cops (or even another armed civilian bystander) bursts in and assumes the African-American Shaw is a criminal killer and shoots him.
I am reminded of the case of Philando Castile shot dead by police in July 2016, in possession of a totally legal handgun.
So responses that many of us may make here are less about guns in general, than the whole mania of the NRA in specific.
 
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Literotica.com - grover10
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Posted - Apr 29 2018 : 10:04AM
 
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Posted - Apr 29 2018 : 12:14PM
Huff removed link
Edited by - FlacFan on 5/11/2018 12:41:15 PM
 
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Literotica.com - grover10
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Posted - May 6 2018 : 9:57AM

An excerpt from the article:
US President Donald Trump took aim at two of America's closest allies in a speech at the NRA convention, saying strict gun laws failed to prevent the 2015 terrorist attacks in Paris and highlighting a purported increase in knife violence in London.
The comments provoked anger in both France and Britain.

Senior Member

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Posted - May 7 2018 : 5:53AM
^ Yeah it did piss off most of us in Britain. The issue isn't really whether having guns or not prevents terrorism, it's about whether having guns available to the general population makes your society safer or more dangerous. The controversy in the States is about domestic gun crime, not terrorism. I know of no western state that has prevented terrorist attacks; but I do know that mass killings are a lot less effective when all the assailant has is a knife.
London has seen 59 murders since 1st January - that's in a city with a population of 8 million. Of those, guns were involved in 8 cases only. Can any large city in the US compare?

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Posted - May 7 2018 : 6:51AM
^ (Apparently this is standard Secret Service process.) It was reported in my country that people at that rally were not allowed to carry guns.
 
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BOYCOTT JAMES DEEN - BOYCOTT COMPANIES THAT BOOK HIM OR SELL HIS WORK. YES, IT'S THAT BLACK & WHITE.
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Posted - May 13 2018 : 1:45AM

I could be very wrong, but I do believe this is against the constitution.
 
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Literotica.com - grover10
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Posted - May 18 2018 : 11:01AM

Senior Member

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Posted - May 18 2018 : 1:40PM
(Sigh) Here we go again.
Trump, a virtual supporter of gun ownership, has already spoken about it. Sorry Trumpet they are hollow words.
BBC News Link

Edited by - Brummie on 5/18/2018 1:44:48 PM
 
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Literotica.com - grover10
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Posted - May 18 2018 : 1:48PM
^ I guess one way of topping the Royal Wedding in England is to have another mass shooting in America.
And Tourism America wonders why tourism is down. Either you get the potential to be shot at or you get crazy lawyers that shout racist obscenities at you. Sheesh!
Edited by - grover on 5/18/2018 1:54:37 PM

Senior Member

3149 Posts
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Posted - May 18 2018 : 3:31PM
At least the American Royal watchers are in the safest place THIS weekend. Windsor in Berkshire, England

Senior Member

Gone for a walk.
1629 Posts
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Posted - May 18 2018 : 8:49PM
No doubt Trump is a fiery inspiration for a hateful ideology. I wonder how many more like this kid (and Nikolas Cruz) are lurking underground? I wonder what they will do when Trump is removed from office?

Senior Member

Starfucked bitch
5978 Posts
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Posted - May 18 2018 : 11:25PM
I worry if the Mueller investigation is enough to get Trump out of office what these guys who are seething below the surface are going to do. My god.
 
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Woman of the Decade
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Posted - May 19 2018 : 10:14AM
 
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"liable to deprave and corrupt"
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Posted - May 19 2018 : 6:28PM

Jacco

Senior Member

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Posted - May 19 2018 : 8:12PM
^ Well, that was an Onion article, but yes, completely relevant. People anywhere in the world can have a mental illness, anyone can snap. Access to guns is the issue.
---------
In my country, it's being reported that this year more American students have died in school shootings than have soldiers in America's active conflicts around the world. Has this been reported in America?

Member

Everyone has a story. Im choosing to write mine now
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Posted - May 19 2018 : 8:31PM
As I read over the comments I have yet(if I missed it, sorry! A lot of comments) to see one that digs deeper than the obvi blame to this trend. First I would like to say that 80% of the guns used in these tragic events, were bought legally. 75% of those purchased, were by individuals that were either acquaintances, friends or relatives of the shooter.. NOT THE SHOOTER. There is a similar pattern to each of these shooters. Each are suffering from a psychological disorder. Each are heavily medicated. Each have made it known prior to the events that they felt as though they were going to harm themselves or others. Why is that? Could the adverse effects from these medications have anything to do with the actions of those who use an inanimate object to harm, maim or kill another?

Senior Member

tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
6974 Posts
11/13
Posted - May 19 2018 : 8:42PM
^^
Sheila Jackson Lee mentioned this morning on either CNN or MSNBC (not sure which I was watching).
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