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3149 Posts
1/09
Posted - Jul 5 2018 : 1:46AM
Founded in 1948. During a Labour government.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY NHS 411-31493.jpg

Senior Member

2939 Posts
2/15
Posted - Jul 5 2018 : 5:45AM
When Obama was attempting to introduce a form of universal health care, I watching a lot of Fox News. So the NHS was discussed many times, in not very flattering terms.

Senior Member

3149 Posts
1/09
Posted - Jul 5 2018 : 10:47AM
^ There you go. The NHS has lasted 70 years. Obama Care lasted......
I for one am glad that we Brits have a health service that is the envy of the world. I was born premature in 1956. I was in hospital a number of times in my childhood. There are countless stories that people had been written off as having a 5% or 10% chance of surviving but are still alive today but for the dedication and hard work skills of the surgeons and nurses in our NHS. And 70 years on it is still the best in the world. I would rather be treated under the NHS than Obama Care or whatever Trump has in place. Here's to another 70 years of the NHS

Senior Member

tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
6974 Posts
11/13
Posted - Jul 5 2018 : 11:18AM
Nobody who has socialized medicine wants to trade it for what we have in the U.S.

Senior Member

3149 Posts
1/09
Posted - Jul 5 2018 : 2:15PM
Since 1948 we've had Labour, Conservative, Labour, Conservative governments and so on. even a Conservative Lib Dem coalition government. So political parties with different policies. But we still have the NHS.
In the States in the last few years there has been Bush Care. Obama Care, then Trump has apparently scrapped that system. What will happen when Trump leaves office Hilary Care or "someone else Care". It seems that the Republicans would maybe have one system and the Democrats have another
At least we Brits have the same world class system through three different types of government (Labour Conservative and the Coalition) otherwise WE would be chopping and changing every time a new Prime Minister takes over.
Edited by - Brummie on 7/5/2018 2:16:43 PM
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Senior Member

2939 Posts
2/15
Posted - Mar 19 2019 : 7:08AM
I just heard the NHS includes dental cover? Is that actually the case?

I don't see how that could be practical in a universal health care system, as with dental, where does medical need end and cosmetic begin? I believe low income earners should have access to free/discount dental care, but I don't see how it could be universal.

(Or have I just been deluded by a medical industry sector who was/is just looking to maintain its interests?)

 
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goregoregirl.com
11851 Posts
1/09
Posted - Mar 28 2019 : 12:34PM
^ It used to and then stopped. (Someone correct me on this if I am wrong--I haven't used the NHS in a while).

Boy I miss the NHS...when I go home in August, I will get my check ups.

 
All-Star Member

"liable to deprave and corrupt"
5501 Posts
5/04
Posted - Mar 28 2019 : 2:42PM
^^My dental care insurance has a list of what they pay, if it's not on the list, they don't pay.


Jacco


Senior Member

tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
6974 Posts
11/13
Posted - Mar 28 2019 : 2:59PM
^^^
Those same determinations are made all the time with medical care. There are people who know stuff about things (experts).

Teeth whitening = cosmetic.

Teeth cleaning = health maintenance.

Veneers to make your teeth look better = cosmetic. Veneers or similar to repair teeth damaged in a car accident = necessary medical.

Placing fillings where teeth have decayed = health. Placing fillings to make a gap in the teeth look better = cosmetic.

Braces to make teeth look pretty = cosmetic. Braces because your jaw and teeth are out of alignment, you have no 'bite' and can't eat most foods = health.

Anything with gum infection and decay = health. There are surgeries that cannot be performed until you clear up infections of the gums.

Anything about reconstruction of the mouth after oral cancer = legitimate health concerns = medical.

I had a friend who had truly, horribly awful breath. He usually stood a fair distance from other people, but he would apologize when he was anywhere too close. He had gum problems, horrible awful decaying gums. He also had heart problems. The heart problems could not be fixed because they wouldn't operate with his gums in that condition, because the infection travels in the blood and was a threat to the success of any operation. Dentists would not operate to fix the gums because doing so was a risk to his heart and they wouldn't take the liability risks.

Your mouth is an entry into the body for germs. Vulnerable mucous membranes and lots of places for bacteria to lodge under the gums. Keeping your mouth and teeth healthy is a legitimate health issue.

I trust that A) It can't hurt to have good oral health and prevent infections, and B) Medical and dental authorities are capable of recognizing which procedures are health related and which are cosmetic.


Edited by - Pieps on 3/28/2019 3:00:09 PM


Senior Member

2939 Posts
2/15
Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 3:06AM
^ In theory, yes, but in reality, many cosmetic dental treatments could be classified as being medically needed. (Remember when almost every woman having a nose job had a "deviated septum"?)

I'm not saying it's wrong for a universal health care system to include dental care, I just don't see how it could be practical. That's why I'm asking if anyone has first hand experience of the NHS doing so. And if there are, how it operates in practise.


Member

118 Posts
6/16
Posted - Apr 3 2019 : 2:34PM
Dental treatment is charged for in the NHS, though you have wider options of treatment if you can afford to go private.

It was brought home to me the stark differences between the US and UK by a passage in Stormy Daniels book, Full Disclosure, in which she describes how a partner had to sell one of his guns to pay for medical treatment he needed. Of course over here you're not allowed to carry guns, but you don't have to worry about not being able to pay for urgent medical attention, thank god.


Senior Member

2939 Posts
2/15
Posted - Apr 4 2019 : 2:51AM
^ Thanks. But I'm just wondering what "charged for" means in practice. What happens if you don't have even those funds?

I actually did a little googling today and found this.

“All treatment that is, in your dentist's opinion, clinically necessary to protect and maintain good oral health is available on the NHS. This means the NHS provides any treatment that you need to keep your mouth, teeth, and gums healthy and free of pain, including:
dentures
crowns
bridges “

This blew me away
“Dental implants and orthodontic treatment, such as braces, are available on the NHS, but only if there's a medical need for the treatment.”
(Page last reviewed: 03/04/2017)

Hmmm … sounds great in theory. But it would be good to hear from anyone with first-hand experience how this operates in practice.

Related point: Some countries have dental clinics specifically for low income earners and seniors providing emergency pain relief and free treatment. But in practice, the waiting lists for actual treatment can be up to two years long. Making it basically pointless in many cases.

(And I have first-hand experience of this. I was a low income earner and had a toothache, so went to one of these clinics. The dentist took one look at the tooth and said “That’s coming out”.
I was in complete shock – I’d just come in for a toothache. I asked what it would cost to replace it. They told me three and half thousand dollars.

And on a related point to this, if you’re a low income earner and your missing teeth, I’m pretty sure that would make it very difficult to move on to becoming a non-low income earner.)


Member

118 Posts
6/16
Posted - Apr 4 2019 : 5:34AM
There have always been charges to see NHS dentists and for crowns, bridges etc. you could be talking in the region of hundreds of pounds. There are exemptions for children and the very poor. But if you're down and out and need a lot of work doing I don't know what the situation is. But other medical treatment is free at the point of delivery.

Senior Member

2939 Posts
2/15
Posted - Apr 4 2019 : 6:35AM
^ Oh. Thanks. I took 'covered under NHS' to mean no direct payment. So when it is stated that a dental treatment is covered under NHS, you actually still have to pay. Does this apply to all medical treatments? Eg. If it's stated that X-rays are covered under NHS, is payment still required? If it is, this wouldn't be what I would a universal health care system.

Member

118 Posts
6/16
Posted - Apr 4 2019 : 7:59AM
Yes, dental treatment is rather different to the rest of the NHS. Though treatment still considerably less than going privately. All hospital treatment including X-rays etc. and visits to local GP are free at point of delivery.
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Senior Member

2939 Posts
2/15
Posted - May 1 2019 : 6:39AM
Hmmm... look what I got in my mail box the other day

20190501_203440.jpg


Senior Member

1044 Posts
1/14
Posted - May 4 2019 : 11:46AM
I had a tooth extraction on the NHS recently. I had to have back up treatment twice for a 'dry socket' where the scab gets dislodged and the wound is open. Cost was £45 (about $59)for the whole thing. Bargain!
What does amuse/confuse me is that I could have double by-pass heart operation for absolutely nothing. I mean I don't need one but Christ it's a comfort knowing I'll never have to worry about the cost should it ever be necessary.
The one thing I'm looking forward to is that when I'm 60, all prescriptions are free. Before that, we pay £9 per item in the UK.


Senior Member

2939 Posts
2/15
Posted - May 4 2019 : 7:55PM
^ Thanks for that. It's actually best to hear from someone with first hand experience.

Re. your confusion point, I've thought about it, and it actually makes sense. No one (I assume) is having heart bypasses, knee replacements etc. for cosmetic/personal purposes. But if you were to make dental treatments completely free, the demand could be endless.

I didn't know that over 60 prescription medicine is free. That's amazing. (In my country there's an issue with subsidised medication for all that migrants will get unneeded scripts, then send the drugs to their origin country.)


Senior Member

tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
6974 Posts
11/13
Posted - May 4 2019 : 8:04PM
^

I don't know anyone who wants teeth removed that don't need it, gum disease treatment who doesn't need it, or fillings and crowns that aren't needed.

Just like medical review, the boards in charge of dental can require the x-rays and so forth. There is already dental insurance, and they review things to make sure procedures are necessary/covered. There are limits like, two cleanings a year (or even one, really), and it can allow nuances, such as three cleanings a year while you have braces, etc.


Senior Member

1044 Posts
1/14
Posted - May 5 2019 : 5:04AM
I think the best thing about the NHS is that if I'm ever, for example, seriously injured in a car accident, or discover I have cancer, or am in a coma etc, the one question I will never have to ask is "will my insurance cover the cost of treatment?"


Senior Member

2939 Posts
2/15
Posted - May 5 2019 : 8:48AM
^^ I remember when I was on benefits I saw a brochure that explained that if an emergency came up you could borrow money. The example given was a man needing dental treatment. He could recieve an up front amount and installments would be deducted from future payments.

Re. Public health systems covering dental, I just Googled and found these examples from countries with universal health care. And note, this isn't even treatment.


Senior Member

1044 Posts
1/14
Posted - May 5 2019 : 11:15AM
^Those two pensioner stories are well known in the UK. They speak of not being able to register with a dentist because either a) no dentist in their area was accepting new patients; or b) they only took private patients.
But the question everyone I know asked at the time was "why didn't they ring the emergency dental line?" There's a charge of £21 plus cost of treatment and you see a dentist the same day. Doesn't matter if you're registered as an nhs patient or anything else. Why those two pulled their teeth is beyond me.


Senior Member

tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
6974 Posts
11/13
Posted - May 5 2019 : 11:27AM
Here, if you need chemo, you can beg for money on gofundme, but it doesn't work if you are 44 years old, it only works a little if you are 28 and have small children, and works a little better (it's not ever going to cover the cost, though) if it's a child that needs it -- preferably under 12, white and cute, extra points for dimples and blond curls and a talent like playing the violin. And you need to start with your own network of real-life friends and relatives, and you must demonstrate that you have already lost everything yourself, and made solid efforts to raise money with bake sales and lemonade stands and things. It helps if dad is a firefighter rather than a garbage man, but is not going to work if you are a doctor, lawyer, architect or engineer.

In other words, it doesn't work on need, it works on people's various notions of what your life is worth, whether people are attracted to you or identify with you, etc.

It's just a laugh when people put a coffee can with a slit on top at the grocery store so people can drop in their change. Chemo is -- what -- $7,000 a week, or $20,000 a week or something?

In Canada, if your child is sick, or your grandma is sick, she gets treatment, and there is no bill. It's a different sort of system.


Senior Member

2939 Posts
2/15
Posted - May 7 2019 : 8:13AM
Does anyone know if the Canadian government health care system covers dental? And if it does, would anyone know how it actually operates in practice?

Senior Member

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6974 Posts
11/13
Posted - May 7 2019 : 11:45AM
Canada does not pay for regular dental care.

We lived there until 2016, and had fantastic dental provided by my husband's employer.

In practice, since employers do not have to pay huge $$$ for medical insurance, they can give good other-benefits. 'Most' employers provide dental coverage.

Edited by - Pieps on 5/10/2019 11:39:15 PM

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Senior Member

tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
6974 Posts
11/13
Posted - May 7 2019 : 11:55AM
Since people in Canada won't tolerate surprise bills for unexpected expenses, one of the nice things about our employer coverage is that there was no wrangling with the insurer. It's not a 'thing' there. Their brochure is fairly clear about what is covered (for instance silver fillings are covered, but if you choose white fillings, they pay their limit on silver and you pay the rest). But once you submit the coverage at the dentist, they also will not proceed to do anything with an extra fee without telling you that, "Your insurer covers amalgam fillings. If you want the white fillings, they are $20 each out of pocket." You will give them your credit card for that. They do your teeth. You never get a bill.

Edited by - Pieps on 5/10/2019 11:40:12 PM


Senior Member

2939 Posts
2/15
Posted - May 10 2019 : 9:35PM
^^ Thanks Pieps. But I thought Canada had a universal health care system. I didn't know it was tied to the employer. I thought that was just some weird American thing, where if you don't have a generous employer, you dont have healthcare.

So with dental, would you know what happens when a not currently employed person or retired person is in pain and needs major dental treatment, or loses front teeth in a assault/accident?


Senior Member

tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
6974 Posts
11/13
Posted - May 10 2019 : 11:36PM
Canada DOES have universal health care for legal residents. It just doesn't cover dental.

But the fact that Canada covers medical means that employers don't pay a fortune for medical insurance. So they are able to give some fine perks if they want to.

Universal health care doesn't cover massages, chiropractic, naturopaths and acupuncture. Employers can if they want to.

It's not the government doing that, but the reason employers can do it is that they don't have to cover cancer and multiple sclerosis and diabetes. At all.

Edited by - Pieps on 5/10/2019 11:41:14 PM


Senior Member

2939 Posts
2/15
Posted - May 11 2019 : 7:48AM
^ OK. Thanks. I'm actually not familiar with this employers offering health care services. I just thought it was something oil rich Arab countries offered to foreign knowledge workers.

So regarding universal health care and dental, the universal systems of Britain, Canada and Australia do not cover dental.

Funnily, this was on my news today.

"It is crazy that the mouth is not part of the body where Medicare is concerned,"

Regarding my earlier question,

"... spent nearly six years on the public dental waiting list in physical and emotional pain"

"A private dentist saw her story and decided to help her, pro bono"


Senior Member

2939 Posts
2/15
Posted - Jul 21 2019 : 6:14AM
And I just saw that the American Medicare system doesn't cover dental (along with a whole group of other things that wouldn't even qualify it as a form of socialised healthcare (for over 65s))
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