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Senior Member


6166 Posts
10/02
Posted - Dec 6 2011 : 6:26AM
My opinion on immigration is evolving. I used to be somewhat of an open borders proponent, but not so much anymore.
Now, don't get me wrong. I was never for COMPLETELY open borders, but in general, I always thought it didn't make much sense to keep educated professional types out of the country, especially those that get their education in the states. I've also always held the position that we need to be able to bring in workers for industries that need the labor, and so there needs to be a sensible policy for that to happen.
I still more or less hold these views, but I suppose more "less" than "more", mainly because I think there's quite a lot of abuse of the system, especially around the H1B visa program, which is what many of your foreign tech workers are here on.
I also think Americans are lazy though, and not especially willing to learn the skills they need to get jobs with technology companies, so that's part of the problem as well.
I don't think we can cut off immigration altogether, but I do think it makes some sense to start ratcheting down the numbers of H1Bs that are issued each year. Computer Programming isn't easy, but you don't have to be a genius to do it. Given sufficient demand, more Americans can learn these skills.

fubar

7535 Posts
12/09
Posted - Jul 16 2014 : 3:28PM
America, like some other industrialized nations, is a victim of its own propaganda. Millions of poor and oppressed people hear the spiel of prosperity, progress, and freedom and journey thousands of miles, while belief in that spiel here is quickly fading. Immigrants who get citizenship and jobs put down roots at the beginning of a long decline. That may still be an improvement over their lives in their native lands, but their children may be screwed.
 
All-Star Member

I came to turn on everyone
1721 Posts
6/10
Posted - Jul 16 2014 : 9:50PM
I live in a island nation, so we don't have the porous borders issue. That being said, the majority of immigrants have come to better themselves and as a consequence are hard-working and contribute positively to our multicultural society. It's the whiny, entitled locals who are the problem.

Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 16 2014 : 10:49PM
First, it has nothing to do with laziness. It has everything to do with the cost involved in education, and being wired for the types of jobs you are talking about. Not everybody is wired this way.
And many older (Not old) workers need jobs, but employer's will not higher them without the training, or education. For jobs that don't require either. And the training can be had on the job. Some of the job requirements, and pay associated with them is ridiculous.
 
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32109 Posts
8/03
Posted - Jul 16 2014 : 11:23PM
The problem with immigration is not immigrants, but the numbers in which they are arriving. I don't see how we can absorb them, economically or culturally. It used to be if you were completely down on your luck you could get a job at the 7-11 (all Indians now), or McDonald's (latinos more and more), or Walmart (ditto latinos). There was always something. Those jobs are competitive now. If there are not even bottom rung jobs, this country is going to be turned into Argentina, where you have a sizable middle class, but one that's always just a few inches away from poverty. There will be a mass of mal-educated or undereducated drones, all vying for jobs from $7 an hour to $12 - $14 an hour. There are millions right now who would kill for a $12 hour job. It used to be if you went to college you would be more or less guaranteed an entry level job somewhere. Nowadays even stuff they thought was not exportable like legal research, medical analysis is being done in India. Those used to be good mid level jobs you for people with some education. Doctors are coming from Pakistan and India, so a medical degree is not a ticket to prosperity.
It's baffling to me that it has come to this.
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All-Star Member

I came to turn on everyone
1721 Posts
6/10
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 2:11AM
From an outsider's perspective the demise of the American worker appears to have been due to their lack of politicization. Too many US workers, for too long failed to engage with American politics and allowed the hegemonic Republican/Democrat duopoly to hand the economy over to the corporate classes. This corporate capture of the economy is happening everywhere in the Western World but the US is notorious for its religious demonization of socialism (or even basic social democratic principles). Now of course the rise of Libertarianism as an alleged counter-hegemonic force in American politics will further hasten the hollowing out process. The ideas that workers are a collective stakeholder in a business enterprise and that the government has a legitimate non-minimalist role in the economy (ie using debt to invest in social programs rather than to bail out too big to fail banks) have been so thoroughly anathematized in the US that the only response able to gain traction among the disenfranchised classes is to blame foreigners and outsourcing.
If American workers had celebrated their status and their acheivements in looking after their families and friends rather than harboring vapid Horatio Alger/Willy Loman aspirational fantasies then following the fall of communism there need not have been the Fukuyaman 'end of history' and the consequent evisceration of politics as a utopian project.
Yeah, laugh daily at/with Jon Stewart because, although he's a do nothing moral coward, it's easy and you can feel smart and chic - on the other hand accepting that Michael Moore is telling a more brutally honest version of the truth would mean growing some.
But go ahead, blame the immigrant - knock yourselves out.
 
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3279 Posts
5/09
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 5:23AM
Back in the 1930's, my grandfather "immigrated" from Kansas to Detroit, to work 36 years for General Motors.
I see absolutely no difference between what he did and what those undocumented border kids from Central America are doing, by traveling "the death train" in Mexico to the Texas border.
Socialists believe we should eliminate political borders between nations.
I agree.
Show compassion, show empathy, be a "good Samaritan"
The Congressman, who said "our country should not be the orphanage of the world", makes me very sad.

Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 9:31AM
Yep.All of this.
If you have any debt, are older (30's, 40's, 50's), no college, and have not worked in a long time it's going to be tough.
It is amazing that many bullshit jobs like at Target, Walmart, or anywhere else can be difficult to get. They have a constant turn over, but want you to have a phone call interview, and two more interviews, and thats if you are chosen by the HAL 12000 (HAL 9000's great, great, great, grandson) that reviews you Internet Application like you are applying for a job guarding nuclear weapons.
And the Government is dragging it's feet on this. You never hear about how tough it is to get even menial jobs.
Edited by - 2ferme on 7/17/2014 9:46:09 AM
Edited by - 2ferme on 7/17/2014 9:46:51 AM
Edited by - 2ferme on 7/17/2014 9:47:26 AM

Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 9:45AM
It's not about compassion, it's about having the resources. And it's complete nonsense to open our borders. COMPLETE!
Look for a job lately?
I have no problems with Foreigner's. None, We should have a sensible immigration policy, and I wonder if we have one at all.
The entire comment reads like some far left utopia. The far left has about as much credibility as the right.

Senior Member

3890 Posts
2/03
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 11:03AM
Your dad's emigration made no significant net difference in economic cost. He probably increased his social contribution by moving.
The kids, on the other hand, are likely to be very expensive. They're likely illiterate and will need substantial remedial education ($$$). They'll wipe out any progress the local schools have made towards improving results, and this will cost schools a lot of federal funds (the lesson Houston learned after taking in some many poorly-educated New Orleans kids after hurricane Katrina). You can forget vaccinations so who knows what the medical costs will be.
And speaking of medical costs: few of this kids are ever likely to earn enough to pay for their social costs. Few Americans do either, but they're already here whereas each kid is likely a new $200,000 - $300,000 lifetime cost
The result of uncontrolled immigrations are well known from experience: we've been down this road before, and recently. I'm amazed more people aren't looking at this Mariel Boatlift as an example.

Senior Member

3890 Posts
2/03
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 11:18AM
Remember who you're talking about. These are people who couldn't make it even in Mexico, etc. But in the US they can draw on welfare. They're a lot better off on US welfare than Mexican welfare, etc. The question is how much this will cost the US, and is anyone even calculating that cost?
In the good ol' days o US immigration the US was labor-scarce:there weren't enough workers. But hasn't been true for a while. Immigration does impact the labor market though the main costs fall on the social programs.
 
All-Star Member

Your other left
28335 Posts
3/02
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 12:15PM
That may say something about their skill sets but I'm not sure it proves anything about their work ethic. I haven't lived in Mexico, but I have lived in other Latin American countries, and discrimination against the native people was alive and well when I did. The Catholic church didn't help matters by encouraging them to have large families, regardless of their economic circumstances.
I have no doubt that the vast majority of these people would be very happy to find jobs and chart their own economic future, rather than having to depend upon the largesse of our government.
 
Golden Age Classic

13495 Posts
5/01
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 12:44PM
jrv, I am not sure what the takeaway is I am supposed to get from your posts?
That the schools in New Orleans need improving? That sounds like a takeaway. That has nothing to do with immigration.
That we should use the Mariel Boatload to see if immigration works?
It seems to have had no negative effect on the workforce (Card, David. "The Impact of the Mariel Boatlift on the Miami Labor Market." Industrial and Labor Relations Review 43.2 (1990): 245-57. JSTOR. Web. 17 July 2014. </>That immigrants don't work?
"Despite the fact that a large share of immigrants have few years of schooling, most immigrants do work. In fact, the share of immigrant men holding a job is higher than native-born men." (/ class="postlinks">Go To Top of page
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Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 5:07PM
Really. I have grown up here in northern Baltimore County, and watched the immigrant population explode, and I see them working their asses off. Latino's, and many Educated East Indians. In this immediate area where I live because of many apartments (Something many people have hated for decades) and a bus line that runs through our neighborhood. And the rents are expensive. Very expensive. That first line is about not making it in Mexico is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.
You make some valid points, but that second line is way off base.

Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 5:09PM
Gee, I wonder why.
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Senior Member

3890 Posts
2/03
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 9:07PM
The Houston school district (HISD) lost a lot of federal money as a result of the Katrina migration from New Orleans. Exactly the same will happen with immigration if too many immigrants go to the same place when substantially behind the kids already there. The immigrants may also cause distortion in local funding if a lot of specialized foreign-language or special-needs teachers have to be hired: the cost of that comes right out of the general education budget, ie, you may lose an AP math teacher to pay for a foreign language teacher..
, not boatload.
The Mariel Boatlift was a relatively small number of people. The amnesty Obama wants is far larger, more than order of magnitude.
I'm having a tough time seeing how they will ever earn enough to cover their own personal costs to society, much less as a group. Welfare in the way of Medicare and Obamacare are the most obvious examples. How much will it all cost? Nobody .knows.
If the immigrants all become high-grade silicon solid-state physicists it would be one thing, but if they all become lawn maintenance professionals it's hard to see how the various social programs won't need a lot more funding.
I'm actually not opposed to immigration, but I want it "controlled" and not a repeat of the Mariel Boatlift with Castro's criminals and insane. I'd like to know what it will cost and some reason to believe the immigrant will be, or at least try to be, and productive member of society (in other words, at least an attempt to deny gangs and criminals). That's the vast majority of immigrants so why not try to deny the problem cases?
Edited by - jrv on 7/17/2014 9:11:14 PM

Senior Member

3890 Posts
2/03
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 9:17PM
I didn't make that up. That was told to me, in those exact words, by a Mexican women who immigrated from Mexico to the US in the 1980s. She had an degree in architecure from a Mexican University before immigrating (she married an American).
 
Golden Age Classic

13495 Posts
5/01
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 9:37PM
So to prevent this from happening again should we put up walls on state borders? We obviously need to do something to tighten immigration from one state to another since issues like this are going on.

Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 10:23PM
Most of the people crossing the desert are not educated. They come from areas where there is no work, rampant poverty, and violence.. And many of these people are from central, and south america.
The more you say, the deeper the hole gets.
 
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Woman of the Decade
13912 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jul 17 2014 : 10:34PM
SS, I agree with you except on the "both sides are guilty"-False Equivalence line. (and note: I have stated that I believe the "both sides" meme when it comes to foreign policy) But regarding the economy, no. Yes, there are plenty of millionaire Democrats in congress, sure. But its the Dems' policies (especially in recent years) that have favored the middle-class. We want more money for infrastructure. GOP says no. We want higher minimum wages. GOP says no. GOP says no to family leave policies, sick leave policies, increases in subsidized housing, etc. Obamacare/Medicaid Expansions are still blocked in -- guess where? -- Republican led/dominated states.
Now, one may disagree with the Dems' main idea that government largesse as panacea, that is one's right. But to say "both sides are as fault" is a simplification and misapplication of facts.
Note: When you talk about the "religious demonization of socialism" you're correct, but, again, that's largely in the red Southern and Mountain states.
More here in Budget Battles.

fubar

7535 Posts
12/09
Posted - Jul 18 2014 : 2:49AM
Many Africans are stateless refugees, because their births were undocumented or they lost their documents in wars and fires. That will happen here as America falls apart and states draw/fight/improvise new national borders. The reasons for keeping Mexicans out of America will be equally valid when it's time to keep Americans out of Mexico.
 
Golden Age Classic

13495 Posts
5/01
Posted - Jul 18 2014 : 8:19AM
I have to disagree, when I was leaving Oregon I was at the bottom of what was the middle class in that state. New taxes that were being pushed for by Democrats in that state, had they passed, would have only applied to people above certain income levels. The higher end of the taxes that were being pushed for would have dropped my income below the taxable income line for the new taxes. This would have pushed people who were in the bottom of the middle class down to lower class take home income. I will agree that from what I have seen Democrats tend to try to help the lower class but in my opinion generally this comes as a hit to the middle class and upper class. I also feel that Republicans tend to try to help the upper class, which tends to come as a hit to the middle class and the lower class. So as I see it, both sides are at fault.

Administration, Defenestration

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14455 Posts
11/99
Posted - Jul 18 2014 : 8:38AM
I'm with on this one.
There are a few simple things we could do to limit the northward migration - eg end the war on drugs.

Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 20 2014 : 7:19PM
How can this affect you negatively? This is a very puzzling post. Oregon Dem's were attempting to raise taxes on higher income earners, and somehow you are now lower class? would your pay get cut? Would your taxes go up? Is there some sort of punishment you would have received in Oregon if the tax bill passed?
Edited by - 2ferme on 7/20/2014 7:34:22 PM
 
Golden Age Classic

13495 Posts
5/01
Posted - Jul 20 2014 : 9:32PM
Yes it would effect me negatively, like everyone else my cost was going up. The tax, at one of the proposed rates, would have put my take home income from middle to the untaxable range, yet I would have been taxed. How can it not be seen as negative when it would have left me struggling even more?
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Senior Member

tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
6974 Posts
11/13
Posted - Jul 20 2014 : 9:59PM
This is the part where you lose me.

Senior Member

7829 Posts
6/01
Posted - Jul 20 2014 : 10:22PM
I think I might understand. Quite a few years ago, when I was still an entertainer, I ran into a situation one year when I made just a few thousand dollars more than I'd made the year before (around 4 thousand more) but when it came time for taxes, and I was expecting to pay about the same as I had the year before it turned out I now owed about 6 thousand more in taxes - quite a bit more than I had earned, but because my earnings had put me over the edge into the new bracket it had screwed me. I felt as though I had been penalized for earning money, since I owed it all, and then some, in taxes. Effectively, I had earned 2 thousand LESS even though I had worked 4 thousand MORE.
I took that into consideration the following year, and very carefully stayed UNDER the tax bump. I was disincentivized to work.
If that's not what he's saying then I have no clue.
 
All-Star Member

Your other left
28335 Posts
3/02
Posted - Jul 20 2014 : 10:58PM
I was under the impression that a progressive tax code was supposed to progressively flatten the earnings curve, but only up to a point. Reversing your earnings, being an obvious disincentive to work, is taking things too far. Were I you, I would have written my Congressman about that.

Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 20 2014 : 11:37PM
Because not one thing you say makes any sense. Your income is placed in the untaxable range, yet you would be taxed? Hmmm. And everything is going up? When? So because of the tax everything started getting more expensive? Or was that happening already, and the Dem's were trying to pay for the usual thing like roads, bridges schools....... I am really getting the feeling that something is missing.
The cost of living, and wages have not kept pace since taxes were lowered in the 00's, combined with deregulation of the financial sector, along with everybody can own a home, was a recipe for, your, mine, and everybody elses cost going up that does not have a large portfolio a few zeros behind a couple crooked numbers.

Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 20 2014 : 11:40PM
But your situation put you in a higher bracket. You made 4 thousand more, and thought you were going to pay the same?

Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 20 2014 : 11:41PM
Now I get it, hey, who's on first.
This site has always been fun. That's why I keep coming back.

Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 20 2014 : 11:44PM
Sorry, double post. Fun.
Edited by - 2ferme on 7/20/2014 11:45:35 PM
 
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32109 Posts
8/03
Posted - Jul 20 2014 : 11:58PM
oops nevermind
Edited by - nietzsche on 7/20/2014 11:59:55 PM

Senior Member

tGrump has no shortage of assholes.
6974 Posts
11/13
Posted - Jul 21 2014 : 1:57AM
Well, there are sometimes disincentives in the tax code.
Before the tax reform act of 1986, there was a 'marriage penalty." My husband and I, had we been single, would have paid considerably less in taxes. After the first time that I did taxes as a married person, I quit my job.
I looked into what we would pay if he had been the only one working, and then compared it to what we were paying with both of us working. My job paid more than 3X the minimum wage, required a college degree in chemistry, put me on a schedule of seven days first shift, one day off, seven days third shift, one day off, seven days second shift, four days off (which coordinated with nobody in the real world). It had me working four months through a strike (not as a scab--the plant was shut down and we salaried workers were cleaning the launders and stacks and troughs, so we were not in dispute with the strikers at all) doing things like digging lead compound mud out of a 5 foot deep trench in a yellow rubber suit in 100+ degrees. And guess what. After taxes, it netted me approximately minimum wage. I was astonished. Had I not been married, it would have done enormously better than that.
Anyhow. The people who run the country build in unintended consequences. I don't know who was responsible for the above. They did eventually fix it, though.
Sometimes, though, the results are exactly as desired, which seems to be the case with things like low tax rates for people who don't work (they live on their investments), and high tax rates for people who work.
 
Golden Age Classic

13495 Posts
5/01
Posted - Jul 21 2014 : 9:12AM
Yes, same idea. The only difference is it was the amount I had been making and the tax was going to be a new one (city tax) and retroactive at that. Originally when the tax was first brought out it received heavy opposition, to reduce that, they drew an income line and said if you make below this, you will not have the tax applied (untaxable). They billed it as a way to make "rich" pay. I was far from rich. The tax got much more support after they drew the income line. If the tax had gone through, after paying it, my income, minus the tax would have put me below the income line they had established. If the tax put you below the income line you were still taxed because pre-tax you were above. Yes I felt I was being punished for trying hard and making more money. Especially since when the tax looked like it was going to pass, my rent went up accordingly (since as the landlord explained he was going to have to retroactively pay on my rent).
 
All-Star Member

5279 Posts
11/11
Posted - Jul 21 2014 : 10:05AM
I tend to agree, but I don't think it's as simple as you imagine, given the realities of politics, economics, and the military in the Western Hemisphere. It's about much more than drugs.
If I were President, I would start by taking two steps, but I will never become President–largely because I would take these steps.
My understanding is that most of the current refugees are coming from Honduras and Guatemala. (The two dark spots in Central America with some of highest murder rates in the world.)
Screen Shot 2014-07-21 at 9.44.14 AM.png
(Note, to the degree that homocide rates measure how violent a society is, it would seem that Guatemala and Honduras are much more violent than anyplace in the Middle East or Central Asia.)
Of course, the reasons for the high levels of violence in the Americas are complex, but I don't think started with the drug war.
1) Acknowledge that the events in Honduras in 2009 constituted a coup. Under US law, the administration would then be required by to stop aid to Honduras. It might also be appropriate to investigate what role (if any) the Embassy (or "Other Government Agencies") had in the coup. If US persons violated US law, then bring them to justice. (I doubt that it went as high up as Hilary Clinton or Barack Obama, but if it did....)
The Guatemalan case is more nuanced. First of all Otto Perez Molina advocated the legalization of drugs, which seems reasonable to me. But it also seems pretty clear that he was involved in the (US supported) genocide of the 1980s, and I don't doubt that the military continues to brutalize the populace, particularly rural poor of Mayan descent.
2) Condition future aid to Guatemala on their undertaking a real truth and reconciliation process around the genocide.
In my experience, there are people in every nation on Earth who are working to decrease violence and to increase the welfare of the poor in their societies. The State Department should work to support these people rather than supporting wealthy people who use violence to maintain their wealth.
While I agree with Steph that the drug war has been a disaster, we need to recognize that it didn't represent a major change in US policy in the Western Hemisphere. Instead it was just a new justification for a long-standing policy of supporting repressive military regimes that allow US businesses free reign in the hemisphere.
So, I would say the US should actively support democracy and freedom in Latin America. If the people of Latin America don't want to allow US companies to have free reign in their nations, then supporting democracy and freedom would mean respecting their desires. Of course, US policy since 1823 has been almost the exact opposite.

Senior Member

7829 Posts
6/01
Posted - Jul 21 2014 : 2:49PM
I knew I'd pay more, but I thought it would only be a little bit more. My income went up and down within a 10k range for the entire 15 years I was entertaining, and my taxes were always very nearly the same - a couple hundred up or down from a predictable median. I had no clue that a 4k raise in income was going to cost me 6k more in taxes. It was unfathomable. It's not right for Uncle Sam to pocket your entire income increase, and then some, so that you're actually earning LESS than you were when you were earning less than you did before you got the raise. What the hell is the point of working harder? I'm sure there is a point beyond the 4k were I would have started getting to keep some of what I earned, but I never bothered to find out.
This is from someone who is PRO taxes, fwiw.

Senior Member

3890 Posts
2/03
Posted - Jul 21 2014 : 3:34PM
Federal income tax rates won't do this. The tax owed on *gross* income is a continuous function of that gross income (each tax rate is only applied to the income above that rate's threshold, not below it).
I'm betting there are some tax credits etc you lost from higher income, and that it is loss of credits that caused the bad result. Or maybe some state taxes do that.
I vaguely recall that Obamacare has this problem too in an edge case: there is a way to make one more penny and wind up thousands out of pocket.

Senior Member

3890 Posts
2/03
Posted - Jul 21 2014 : 3:40PM
Retirees make up almost all of that group and they pay the same rates as everyone else.

Senior Member

3890 Posts
2/03
Posted - Jul 21 2014 : 4:00PM
I'm confused because you're supporting my point. The illegal immigrants aren't educated, couldn't get a job at home, couldn't break out of poverty, couldn't get away from violence ... that sounds like "couldn't make it" to me. The people back home who have college degrees, do have jobs, aren't dirt poor, and don't live in violent areas - they don't immigrate illegally, if they immigrate at all.

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13914 Posts
3/03
Posted - Jul 21 2014 : 4:34PM
That's not how it works. If you have enough of an income increase to move into the next higher tax bracket, the higher rate does not apply to your entire income; it only applies to the amount you made that exceeded the limit of the lower bracket. In other words, if you make $x one year and $(x+4000) the next year, you pay the same taxes on x both years. The only way a $4000 income rise could produce a $6000 tax liability increase would be if you moved into a 150% tax bracket, which did not/does not exist.
 
Golden Age Classic

13495 Posts
5/01
Posted - Jul 21 2014 : 5:29PM
Many states have income tax as well.

Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 22 2014 : 11:31AM
There are no jobs in the jungle, or the desert. The map posted illustrates the violence dilemma. You are the only one supporting your point with opinion, not data, and completely twisting what I posted to support your view.
Why don't you go there and make it.
The people here have college degrees. What the hell does that mean. I'll tell you what it means. People aren't making it, or barely making it here, and they aren't immigrants.
Awfully funny that those people who aren't making there, are making it here. I live in an area where I see them making it all the time. And they are working.
As far as taxes people posting are leaving out the differences between where they live, and the difference between State Taxes They Are Paying and Federal. Many states having taxes that vary greatly (This should be obvious, but I wonder). The no income tax is a ploy. A big ploy. Those states will make up for the revenue.

Senior Member

3890 Posts
2/03
Posted - Jul 22 2014 : 12:30PM
Believe it or not, not all people from south of the border are poor, unemployed, and likely to find working as a lawn maintenance professional in the US an improvement over their life at home. The physicist who worked out a real theoretical basis for a "Star Trek" Warp Drive was a Mexican theoretical physicist (Miguel Alcubierre) who works at a university in Mexico. Should Miguel ever decide to immigrate, I'm guessing he doesn't pay a coyote but instead just buys a ticket on an airplane.
(don't hold your breath for a trip to Antares on a star ship - an Alcubierre drive is, um, hard to build and use. But he showed how a faster-than-light drive could work within General Relativity)
She said the change in taxation happened when her income changed, which implies it was something in income taxation, not property or sales tax, that did the damage. I was pretty careful with "federal" and "state" in my post.
Harri Patel's post is a better way of saying it than mine, and is correct for federal income taxes. My best guess is that her increased income caused her taxable income to change drastically, and perhaps lost use of tax credits, etc, in other words, there's a lot more that goes into the federal income tax owed than just income and the tax tables.

Senior Member

2759 Posts
11/09
Posted - Jul 22 2014 : 2:40PM
^
And not one person so far has said that everybody south of the Border is poor, and uneducated. Your broad sweeping generalizations are typical right wing nonsense.
Your entire diatribe is right wing opinionated dribble. That's my opinion, and the data is right here to prove it.
And as far as Tax I was not talking about Kim. Or addressing you about it. I will stick to my post. People rarely make the distinction about Taxes, and the fact that there are State, Federal, Local...... They speak in generalizations, you know.
Edited by - 2ferme on 7/22/2014 2:44:49 PM
Edited by - 2ferme on 7/22/2014 2:45:21 PM

Senior Member

7829 Posts
6/01
Posted - Jul 22 2014 : 5:03PM
You guys are probably right. I honestly have no idea what happened, because I was accustomed to simply saving all my information and stuff all year then dumping it on my accountant and signing where he pointed when he called me back to the office a week later. That's what I did every year. Drop off my stuff, go back and sign. Write a cheque and mail it in. Never had a moment of grief... until I made an income worth bothering over. Then WOOOOOSH! I was used to paying my self employment tax stuff, I was used to paying my estimated city tax stuff quarterly, I was used to paying my property taxes, I was used to everything and it was all pretty constant. Like I said, up or down a bit here and there, but nothing dramatic. Until that time. I was mightily tax spanked. Mightily.
 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13912 Posts
1/08
Posted - Aug 5 2014 : 11:41AM

King, to his credit, readily engages in debate with the pair.
Rand, on the other hand, runs from the situation with a speed that would leave Usain Bolt eating his dust.
 
All-Star Member

4629 Posts
8/11
Posted - Jul 7 2015 : 12:25PM
Someone should investigate and see if Donald Trump is paying this guy. He's the poster boy for Trump's "rapist and murderers" remark.

fubar

7535 Posts
12/09
Posted - Jul 7 2015 : 1:48PM
We could call it a trade deficit, with not enough Muricans exchanged.

fubar

7535 Posts
12/09
Posted - Jul 7 2015 : 1:52PM
China spent two thousand years building a wall to stop Mongol invasions, and now local builders are stealing the bricks.

fubar

7535 Posts
12/09
Posted - Jul 7 2015 : 2:27PM
Trade bankers, venture capitalists, and lobbyists for farmhands and bicycle mechanics.
Edited by - charn on 7/8/2015 12:06:15 AM
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