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Senior Member

5491 Posts
6/04
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 12:13AM
^Alleged victim.

Senior Member

Silencio...
104341 Posts
2/00
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 12:16AM
Cinematical:

Member

456 Posts
8/08
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 12:22AM
Just remember O.J. was acquitted too.
I know some of you are blinded by fame, but the fact are the facts.
They found the 12 year olds finger prints on the porno mags and the glass of booze. And he admitted to sleeping in the same bed with little boys. But of course because he is famous you take his word over the boys that he never touched him.
But whatever, As Mikey sang....Beat it Beat it.
Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
9086 Posts
1/05
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 12:22AM
ahh, but a very rich one....
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Senior Member

The people have spoken. I'm a nitpicking dick. Woo!
12836 Posts
1/04
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 1:25AM
Jackson dies, almost takes Internet with him

Senior Member

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
3970 Posts
7/04
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 2:39AM
Just imagine how much $$ he would have received had he been an actual victim?

Senior Member

Heretic, Iconoclast, Skeptic
5797 Posts
8/03
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 4:28AM
I agree. Wealth often attracts blackmailers and gold diggers.
I wouldn't be surprised if the stress resulting from so many false accusations contributed to his death.
He and I were born in the same year. Today I am thanking my lucky stars that I have never been rich, talented or famous. Even with all the millions, I wouldn't want to swap my lifetime for his.
R.I.P. Michael. Thank you for the music.

Senior Member

5491 Posts
6/04
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 5:39AM
^+1

Senior Member

Somewhere in Yellowjacketland
41895 Posts
10/00
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 5:48AM
[ invalid url ]
 
All-Star Member

Marv Montag ()
5437 Posts
2/09
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 6:02AM
I've never been one to shy away from the occasional MJ joke over the years, but it kind of struck me today -- when talking with my wife about the whole thing -- that if the guy were truly innocent, then what happened to him would have been one of the worst smear jobs in recent history.
Given that he was acquitted, that the earlier pay-out can reasonably be explained as a troubled / shy individual just wanting it to go away, and that the finger-prints thing isn't horribly strong evidence for abuse*, I have to say that I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
I've never been a big fan--and I am certainly unsure as to whether he actually did it or not--but I still feel that the benefit of the doubt is in order here.
* = my basis for this is that adult mags at my house and also my friends' houses would have had my finger-prints on them at / around that age--yet I was never abused by anyone. My friends and I simply got into stuff on our own.


Edited by - fu_q on 6/27/2009 6:26:32 AM


Senior Member

Somewhere in Yellowjacketland
41895 Posts
10/00
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 6:28AM
But did you drink any "Jesus Juice"?
 
All-Star Member

Marv Montag ()
5437 Posts
2/09
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 7:06AM
^No, but I'm not sure exactly what was found with the glass / alcohol.
Of course, having a drink with a minor doesn't mean that one abused him / her, either.
I'm not saying that he necessarily didn't do it. I'm just saying that there is a reasonable enough doubt for me to give him the benefit thereof.
edits: typos...tired...
Edited by - fu_q on 6/27/2009 7:06:59 AM

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 8:13AM
Even the prosecution's psychiatrist on the case where Jackson was acquitted didn't think he was a pedophile. He saw Jackson more as a regressed 10 year old.

Senior Member

Subterfuge......
17161 Posts
4/07
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 11:54AM
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Senior Member

Luton Piss On Watford... Tis True
3952 Posts
4/08
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 12:12PM
People are often unreasonable, illogical and self-centered; Forgive them anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies; Succeed anyway.
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you; Be honest and frank anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous; Be happy anyway.
From Mother Theresa
 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13913 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 12:44PM
Just like Gary Condit. As of 9/10/01 the story about him possibly being involved in the disappearance of Chandra Levy was the biggest story going.
A day later, and nothing else mattered.


Senior Member

4717 Posts
1/03
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 12:53PM
If you "like" 9 and 10 year old boys, have a sleepover.
Bring some whiskey to spike their warm milk; it’s all love.
You know, it's just the love.
From M J

Senior Member

4047 Posts
2/07
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 1:29PM
If I remember correctly before MJ's success with OFF THE WALL and THRILLER it seemed like most pop albums only had one or two hits at the most and the album would fade away. After MJ's success with releasing 4 or more hit singles more pop artists starting putting more hit singles on one album and the album would be around longer. In the world of pop albums after MJ's success it seemed that artists started putting together stronger albums with more pontential hits on them
 
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Woman of the Decade
13913 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 1:43PM
OK, I hate to shit on people's memories of him, and on someone who hasn't even been dead three whole days, but let's be real. Take away the music (and don't get me wrong, I've got more than a few Jacksons and solo records in my attic - on vinyl yet.), and you have a guy who's a Grade-A Asshole.
1. Michael Jackson went behind the back of an alleged "friend" (Paul McCartney) and bid on the Beatles catalog without him knowing. You don't fuck over "friends" like that. If Jackson had ever said to him "Paul I think you're a fucking prick, don't ever talk to me again" that would be one thing. But Macca never saw it coming and MJ never apologized. Douche.
2. He was a fucking Egomaniac. It's one thing to self-promote oneself. But Jackson took it way too far. In 1991 he was dubbing himself "The King of Pop". At a time when the Dangerous cd was displaced by Nirvana's Nevermind at the top of the charts. 1993: that unbelievable "I'm a victim" video looking totally ridiculous with his new, Joker-like face. 1995: Creates a mega-foot statue of himself for publicity to promote the History cd. Said CD also containing pages and pages praising him and his accomplishments. 2001: Puts together a tribute to himself to celebrate 30 years of his solo career. 2002: Invincible cd being a relative flop, he goes on a rampage in the streets calling the president of Sony, (Tommy Motolla), a "racist devil". 2005: After getting aquitted in the 2005 trial, his website aired footage comparing Michael's victory to Nelson Mandela getting freed from prison after 27 years.
Face it, he made Donald Trump look humble.
3. He hated his skin color. How ironic is it that Jackson's greatest fame came from his youth through the "Thriller" era when he was dark-skinned, and his decline increases the lighter got? Also part and parcel with that, all the credit (deservedly) he gets for breaking down racial barriers in music and society was undermined by the fact that he hated his race. He says his father beat him and that's why he wanted to change his face. Perhaps that is true, but his father still accompanied him everywhere during the 2005 trial. And he never hesistated to play the race card (see above); whenever the heat came on him from anyone, in L.A., be it Gil Garcetti or Tom Sneddon, he immediately turned black again. As a black man, I say FUCK HIM.
4. He was a goddamned liar who cheated or tried to cheat everyone he ever did business with. How many civil lawsuits have there been against him? At death time he was being sued by that Bahranian prince who wanted to start a record label with Jackson, and then found out Jackson had no intentions of recording anything. He's been sued multiple times by former financial advisors and accountants. He was sued for back royalties for the Thriller video by director John Landis and the actress in the vid, Ola Ray. He was sued by his former personal manager who brokered the London shows, which itself caused a lawsuit by a promoter who said he had agreed to do a few reunion shows in the states with his brothers this summer.
And it's fair to say that, "well, he's Michael Jackson he's a target". Elton John, The Rolling Stones, U2, and Jimmy Buffett are entertainers far richer than Jackson, and you don't hear about people "targeting" them just out of thin air.
For awhile there, Jackson was always talking up a new theme park in Poland or Eastern Europe or somewhere, and (allegedly) these things always broke up when he held out his hand for preliminary cash payouts without signing his name to any contracts or doing anything that would have committed him to any of these projects. He tried to swindle everyone he ever met, and then had the nerve to accuse someone else of trying to "kike" him. (that's straight out of the lyrics of one of his songs)
5. Mr "Man in the Mirror" spent huge amounts of money on tons of high-end crap from stores like Harrod's and such. He got a lot of mileage from giving to charities in the 80s, but increasingly, his favorite charity was himself.
BTW, you'll note I haven't even mentioned the words "child molestation" yet.
Face it, you can enjoy the music, and the memories, (I certainly will). But fact is, After turning 30, Jackson started believing his own hype way too much, and was transformed into something...different. Even as his features were getting lighter, he himself was turning darker and uglier.
Note: I will mourn.
I will mourn the young boy who's TV show I watched faithfully in the 70s and who dance moves I was still trying to cop in the 80s. But that guy died something around '86, '87. This pale (literally and figuratively) imitation of him who's just succumbed, mostly likely due to the cocktail of prescription drugs he was gobbling like candy?
Not so much.
 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13913 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 2:05PM
DB, you have a point: Thriller rescued the music industry from both the recession of the early 80s and the diversion of kids' pocket money into Pac-Man and Frogger.
Thriller was the proverbial rising tide that lifted all boats: just a glance at the record sales for artists that followed - Born in the USA, Synchronicity, Purple Rain, 1984, Footloose, Flashdance -- tells the tale. Now music executives have always been known for seeking artists who are going to engender big record sales, and, shit, it makes sense. But after Thriller, there was an ever greater emphasis on signing acts who would look good on MTV and sound good on Top 40 radio. Two factors which could potentially lead to landing soda pop commercials and songs on movie soundtracks. This kind of focus pretty much cancels out the chance of a Steely Dan or a Leonard Cohen coming up and breaking through to mainstream success.
Combine that with the fact that in the late 80s all the record companies and MTV started getting bought out by publicly held companies. Elektra and Atlantic all get bought by Warner Bros; Columbia gets bought by Sony, etc etc. Now, everything is about profit. These companies don't really wanna hear about "artistic development" All they want to know about is bottom line.
It's telling that there are very few artists who got their start in the 80s who are still around making music today. There's Janet Jackson, and...Duran Duran? Cyndi Lauper?
But I don't lay the blame solely at the feet of Thriller or the music industry in general. Someone like Frank Zappa was never going to break through in the mainstream no matter what.
Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
9086 Posts
1/05
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 2:28PM
Your assessment is spot on, except that you can't really split the music from the rest of the person. I think that often ones greatest strengths cand also be ones greatest weakness.
While we all celebrated that kid on the TV show, behind the scenes there was cruelty, exploitation, and a abuse, mostly at the hand of his father. Musically he was a great genius, but emotionally he was a prisoner of his own demons.
It really is sad, but with phenomenal success, often there comes a huge price tag.
major sharp
Deactivated User

1910 Posts
2/04
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 3:01PM
I think it's amazing of all the similarities their are with Michael Jackson and ELvis Presley. Both set records in selling records and both looks like they died the same way with prescription drugs. I can't think of anyone getting as much air play as both these super stars did in life or death. And I don't think anyone will.

Member

456 Posts
8/08
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 3:14PM
Thank you zarinafan.
At least there are a few of us here that get it.
Edited by - deputyduffy on 6/27/2009 3:15:30 PM
 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13913 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 3:21PM
One huge similarity between the two is this; they both indulged themselves in their cravings non-stop and dismissed anyone who wasn't a yes-man. There were plenty of people who wanted to help Elvis, which would have meant him taking time of from the grind of the Las Vegas shows. But that would've taken money out of Colonel Tom Parker's wallet so he convinced Presley that people telling him to lose weight and lose the pills were not his friends. So he dismissed them, and brought in other people in his orbit who would tell him exactly what he wanted to hear.
Same thing with Jackson; certainly you have to believe there were people telling him, "Inviting kids to the ranch for the day is fine, but, eh, maybe we oughta chill out with all these sleepovers" . Those people were certainly shown the door or were ignored.
Britney Spears should thank her lucky stars that her parents are in her life, and forcing her to get straight. Otherwise there's little doubt that by now, she would have certainly preceded Michael into the grave.
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A rose is what you are to me
10480 Posts
6/03
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 6:08PM
You obviously forgot about Metallica. When they started they were never expected to be that successful, but they became one of the biggest bands ever, and they're still huge.
Edited by - Myload on 6/27/2009 7:28:24 PM
Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
9086 Posts
1/05
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 6:18PM
^then there is also THE BOSS!

Senior Member

A rose is what you are to me
10480 Posts
6/03
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 6:26PM

Edited by - Myload on 6/27/2009 6:27:54 PM
 
All-Star Member

SAMCRO
17126 Posts
8/00
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 6:27PM
If by The Boss you're referring to Springsteen he was first heard from bigtime in the 1970's-- Born to Run ring any bells unless you are referencing a different Boss.

Senior Member

A rose is what you are to me
10480 Posts
6/03
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 6:29PM
^That's what I said in the post I just deleted.
Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
9086 Posts
1/05
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 6:32PM
...as for my post regarding NJ's favorite son, the point I was merely making is that he started before those mentioned, and is still making music and filling stadiums around the world. And he has never been caught sleeping with little boys.
 
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Marv Montag ()
5437 Posts
2/09
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 6:55PM
There are a whole bunch of bands from the 80s still recording -- it's just that they don't have the same level of popularity as before.
For instance -- Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, etc.
the unknown pervert
Deactivated User

I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch.
17482 Posts
5/06
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 7:41PM
Yes there are a lot of bands from the 80s and before that are still recording. Try to find one song of theirs on a top 40 radio station today though. Other than maybe Madonna, U2, and Aerosmith it can't be done. Most of these bands make their money today from touring and residuals from albums recorded twenty years ago. Any profit from a current album is a bonus.

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 8:56PM
Music is cyclical. Many 80's bands will be considered classics in another decade or so.

Senior Member

Good Night and Good Hockey
2499 Posts
7/05
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 9:32PM
Another Jersey Boy: Bon Jovi
 
All-Star Member

Marv Montag ()
5437 Posts
2/09
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 9:46PM
There are some others that can still sell well, too:
Bon Jovi -- "Lost Highway" (2007) -- no. 1 peak on the Billboard 200 ; certified platinum
Bon Jovi-- "Have a Nice Day" (2005) -- no. 2 peak on the Billboard 200 ; certified platinum
GnR -- "Chinese Democracy" (2008) -- no. 3 peak on the Billboard 200 ; certified platinum (though the actual consumer sells were at the gold level -- due to the Best Buy thing)
Journey (started in the 70's) -- "Revelation" (2008) -- no. 5 peak on the Billboard 200 ; certified platinum
AC/DC (started in the 70's) -- "Black Ice" (2008) -- no. 1 peak on the Billboard 200 ; certified double platinum
Metallica -- "Death Magnetic" (2008) -- no. 1 peak on the Billboard 200 ; certified platinum (though I think that this one will be certified double platinum soon)
Bon Jovi's "(You Want to) Make a Memory" single off of "Lost Highway" was certified gold and received decent airplay on VH1 and, presumably, Top 40 stations, as well.
I'm not disagreeing with your general sentiment, but there are others who are still able to move units from the 70's / 80's.
Overall, though, your statements are reasonable.
(I had to re-write this post, so I might have messed up some of the info above -- though I don't think so... the general theme is correct, though.)
edit: typo
Edited by - fu_q on 6/27/2009 9:48:05 PM

Senior Member

Real news. Fake president.
13914 Posts
3/03
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 11:58PM
I agree with Zarinafan's long post above, except the "but I liked his music, and I'll mourn him" parts.
I liked the early Jackson 5 stuff, but I detested everything he put out as a (chronological) adult. Michael Jackson and his inescapable, lame disco muzak MTV dreck were one of the worst things about the 80's, as far as I'm concerned.

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 12:49AM
What's the definition of an 80's artist? Micheal Jackson's solo career began in 1971.
Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
9086 Posts
1/05
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 1:33AM
up until the other day, his music wasn't on many top 40 radio stations either.

Perpetual Marxist

13855 Posts
4/03
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 1:49AM
Slayer.

Senior Member

A rose is what you are to me
10480 Posts
6/03
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 3:40AM
^There's another great example. They will never get radio airplay or have widespread appeal in general, but they're still performing.

Senior Member

A rose is what you are to me
10480 Posts
6/03
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 3:43AM
Also, "Off The Wall" was released in 1979.

Senior Member

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
3970 Posts
7/04
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 4:51AM
Jeez, just listen to oldies radio stations, (like WCBS FM 101 if you're in the New York area). To be truthful I didn't know they still had top 40 radio formats.
Edited by - Dean Wormer on 6/28/2009 5:26:01 AM
 
All-Star Member

Sucker for Sinners
4370 Posts
12/06
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 5:23AM
double post
Edited by - savoy on 6/28/2009 5:30:42 AM
 
All-Star Member

Sucker for Sinners
4370 Posts
12/06
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 5:24AM
This is exactly where my mind went when I first heard the news.
Well actually, my first thought was he od`d and my second thought was, `Wonder when those superfans are gonna start offing themselves...`
Someone else already wrote this but the Jackson I liked died in the early 90`s anyway. I mourned then.
 
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
17059 Posts
9/07
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 6:53AM
I remember sleeeping naked with my buddies when I was 10 don't you Blowfish?
 
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
17059 Posts
9/07
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 6:57AM
BTW everyone who doesn't think Jackson was guilty should be okay with letting Uncle Lester sleep naked with the kids during the next sleepover.
I may have missed this earlier in the thread but the rumours about the Beatles catalogue are out-to-lunch, Jackson sold (at least a portion) of rights to Sony a while ago because his finances were going down the crapper.

Edited by - BlackSix on 6/28/2009 7:00:51 AM


Senior Member

Arrogant & Obnoxious Narcissist
8868 Posts
10/03
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 7:12AM
It really is a shame that the latter part of his career and life were so tainted by weirdness and allegations of all sorts because anyone who actually grew up on his music (and by "grew up" I mean listened to and was a fan of it as it was released, not picked it up after the fact or learned about it later. I know a good many people who are commenting in this thread hadn't even been born yet when his first solo album dropped much less the Jackson 5 stuff so they lack a certain, unattainable perspective) because it would be obvious to anyone who did that Michael Jackson was something of a genius and his contributions to pop culture and music are, without hyperbole, immeasurable, regardless of what trials and plastic surgery did to cast this pall shadow over the rest of his accomplishments. Today's generation, of course, will lack respect for a guy they only know as an accused child molester who altered his physical appearance to the point of almost non-recognition. I just hope there's a few people here who know better and don't mind admitting that they admired him in his heyday, are a little sad to see his life ended so abruptly and recognize that everyone deserves a tiny modicum of dignity in death.
cross.gif
 
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
17059 Posts
9/07
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 7:20AM
I was a kid when Thriller dropped and it doesn't stand up for me today, sounds like overproduced pop-soul, outside of 'Billy Jean.' I like about half of Off the Wall (too many sappy ballads) and the Jackson 5 stuff is fun bubblegum RnB. Just imo.

Senior Member

Luton Piss On Watford... Tis True
3952 Posts
4/08
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 7:28AM
[link inactive:404 - Page not found]Nanny's Claims

Senior Member

5491 Posts
6/04
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 7:30AM
+1 to CJ's post.
Wheter people liked him, loved him, or loathed him, no one can deny that Michael Jackson was definitely an artistsic genius who will never be soon forgotten.
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