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AuthorPost

Senior Member

San Diego, CA
7120 Posts
11/03
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 8:20AM
Friends -
I was gonna stay out of this cuz my only interest in Michael Jackson since 1969 is and always has been solely about the music. I'm not a star struck fan or a blind apologist, but all the other aspects of his life I just did not care about.
From casual observations as the weirdness went on, it was clear to me that he was certifiable and completely removed from any kind of normal reality. And he was so surrounded by a rabble of enablers, sycophants, gravy trainers and people looking to take advantage of him, including family, that any hope of a life that any of us could relate to was long gone.
He was just whack, next subject. And anybody who was involved in his life was either part of the problem, or part of the solution.
But I do chuckle a little as I read all of the railing about Michael Jackson being Public Pedophile #1.
I do not know if Michael Jackson was sucking off 10 year old boys, or if they were sucking him off. Nor do I really care, for I do know this: For any 10 year old boy's dick to wind up in Michael Jackson's mouth would have taken some real effort and some extraordinary neglect on the part of a lot of other adults. This just couldn't happen without complicity by a lot of grownups before some kid wound up in bed with Michael Jackson.
Starting with parents.
Just where was Michael Jackson getting all these Oliver Twists and Artful Dodgers to cuddle and abuse? Was he cruising orphanages? This was MICHAEL FUCKING JACKSON! Dude hasn't bought a bottle of milk on his own for 40 years. Wouldn't know how to even if he wanted to. It ain't like Michael Jackson is creepin' school yards and casing soccer fields luring boys into his Bentley. And how does a kid with parents, (or somebody who is supposed to be responsible for him), wind up staying with Michael Jackson for days, even weeks at a time? Given all the insanity we know and saw with Michael Jackson over the last 25 years, how does some parent leave their kid beyond their control in Michael Jackson's life? For even ten minutes. How does that work? The dude is a nut job. And has been for awhile.
"Dad, I'm goin' up to Neverland, hang with Mike for a few days. Said he would throw me a killer 11th birthday party."
"Okay son, call us when you want us to come pick you up."
Huh?
And if Michael Jackson was doin' dirt on "innocent" children, is there no one in his family or staff that ain't afraid to punch him in the face and say "WHAT THE FUCK?!" Golden Calf be damned. Or does Michael Jackson have the power to have people whacked, so everyone stays silent?
This stuff was all so ridiculous to me, that it wasn't even worth paying attention to. Either Michael Jackson was set up a lot, or was a freak job, or both, but I'm to the point where I don't even care how he was gettin' his freak on, cuz if there was ever one man who couldn't do anything in the dark or on his own, it was Michael Jackson. And if there was ever one pedophile who was easy to keep away from your kid, it was Michael Jackson.
And I also know this:
Even if Michael Jackson WAS the World's Most Heinous Pedophile, who paid people millions for their silence, he STILL did a lot less damage to people than a lot of Catholic priests, who violated a lot more trusts while giving a lot fewer warning signs over the past,...oh,... thousand years, than Michael Jackson could in a hundred lifetimes.
I think I'll save my disgust and vitriol for that crew.
BSD

Edited by - BSD on 6/28/2009 4:15:43 PM


Senior Member

San Diego, CA
7120 Posts
11/03
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 8:58AM
Friends -
On the music...
DM/PR,I'm gonna hafta go you a little better on the old geezer/dating myself train.
My most intimate and cherished personal view of Michael Jackson will always be with him as a member of The Jackson Five, cuz that was my formative years as a kid, and when he and his music had it's most direct impact on me.
I dug Off The Wall, Thriller, and Bad as much as the next person, and completely recognized the historical import of Thriller both as it happened, and now in retrospect. "Beat It" may be my favorite "pop-rock" song of all time. And today I sat with my teenaged kids and watched all those 80's videos again that I hadn't seen in years, marveling at just how incredible Michael's (and Quincy Jones'), pop sensibility and especially the dancing really was. The dancing in "Smooth Criminal" is just extraordinary.
But it's those first five Jackson Five albums from 69-71 that are the essence of my personal attachment to the Jackson Five, with Michael as part.
It was sort of a love-envy-hate, relationship for most young brothas like me who were the same age as the Jackson Five. You couldn't deny that you liked the songs, cuz you did. But you hated them cuz every female in the black community, inculuding mine, were going apeshit over these guys. The hysteria those clowns created in the hood was unbelievable. The second concert I ever attended in my life was a Jackson Five concert with my Mom and my sister. I watched my 12 year old sister and my GROWN ASSED MOM, cry, scream and pee their pants, with 13,000 other screaming females. while I sat there with my lower lip poked out hatin' on those guys.
But I can still sing all those songs and remember them like it was yesterday. And the big, MICHAEL JACKSON explosion was still ten years away.
BSD

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 9:44AM
When adults hang around kids the logical assumption is that they are molesting them. That's why many teachers, youth directors, religious officials, child care providers, etc are regularly accused of molestation. More often than not they must prove their innocence. Whether or not Jackson molested children will always be debated at the water cooler. What is universally understood is his judgment was extremely poor. He only survived it because he had the resources mount a successful defense.
I personally take to the extreme to avoid looking like a predator. I would never render aid to an injured or endangered child I didn't know unless there was another adult around.

Senior Member

5491 Posts
6/04
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 2:08PM
This is exactly why I'm doing my best not to respond to any of it. Whatever happened to people just giving condolences?
I had mentioned this in another thread about teen idols, but this reminds me of how my mother told us how crazy she and her sisters were over the Jackson 5. She grew up watching the Jackson 5 cartoons, which she admits to watching every single time it came on TV. She told us about how she and her sisters would race to the TV whenever the Jackson 5 were performing on TV, and they would fantasize about which of the Jackson brothers they wanted to marry when they grew up (my mom says Jermaine was the "cutest," but Marlon danced better than all of them, even Michael).
When I asked her if she had ever been to a Jacksons' concert, she said that she wanted to go to one, but her parents were too poor to pay for the ticket. However, her oldest sister managed to save up enough of her own money to buy her own ticket to go to the concert. On the night of the concert, the story goes that her sister (my aunt) spent the whole night primping herself in the mirror, styling her hair, and dousing herself in perfume just to go to that concert.
The Jackson fanfare didn't just stop with my mom and aunts either. I remember how my father's youngest brother, who was a teenager in the 1980's, used to actually have the red leather "Beat It" jacket. I hear he's kicking himself now that he didn't keep it. Also, I remember how my mom's youngest sister, who was also an 80's teen, used to have the Michael Jackson doll, complete with jheri curl and everything.
Plus, I already mentioned that my parents still have the Thriller album on vinyl. In addition to that, they also still have the Bad album on vinyl, the record single of Man in the Mirror on vinyl, and a Jackson 5 compilation album on vinyl. That's just what they have on vinyl. That's not even including the rest of the stuff they still have of him on CD, VHS (including an old VHS of Motown 25 where MJ debuted his Moonwalk), and DVD; stuff that you can't even get in stores or on-line right now because everyone's sold out. My father has been debating whether or not he should sell this stuff on Ebay, or atleast see how much he can get for it. But we're all telling him he should keep it.
As for me, I remember once trying to call MJ'S house when I was a kid. I actually called 411 and asked for the phone number to Michael Jackson. It's a good thing the operator could tell I was a child. Otherwise, she probably would have thought I was nuts.
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Senior Member

Arrogant & Obnoxious Narcissist
8868 Posts
10/03
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 2:18PM
This was an admission I was going to keep to myself but fuck it, I had it, too.
Reminds me of when I found this album in my parents' stash:
skywriter.jpg
And called the local radio station to request a song or two off of it...even though it was released 3 years before I was even born.
cross.gif

Senior Member

Real news. Fake president.
13914 Posts
3/03
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 2:39PM
Never mind the fans, what about Marlon, Tito, et al.? The whole family pretty much lived in perpetual hope that Meal Ticket Michael would agree to do another Jacksons tour so that they could make some money.
Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
9086 Posts
1/05
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 3:08PM
I do think there is a difference between admiration of his art and the acknowledgment of his tragic flaws. In a very sad way those flaws over took his art.
Music that we heard in our youth becomes, as we age, a pathway back to days and dreams left behind. A time of a certain innocence in our lives. Sadly MJ probably didn't have that. At that time in his life, he was a cash-cow for his family. He wasn't allowed time to dream. I heard an old interview of his last night, where clips of The Jackson 5 were playing as he commented. As the camera zoomed in on the 10 year old performer, as the viewers saw a great talented kid with flashing bright eyes, he told the interviewer, that he saw fear. Fear of the consequences of failure and the ensuing beatings that occurred if he wasn't perfect.
I guess the best one can say is we loved the sinner, but hated the sin.

Senior Member

Thinking real hard about Katsirk
10435 Posts
12/06
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 4:05PM
I agree with BSD that the pedophile Priest deserve more scorn.
I have almost nothing good to say about MJ, so I will limit my comments.

I also have to confess that I am fairly clueless on his cultural impact. I am a little bit of a rebel when it comes to POP, if it to popular I prefer being outside the loop.
While I am in the minority with my anti commercial vices, I still believe there are tons like me, who crave something different than the stuff radio or MTV played(s). I wouldn't say I rejected MJ, I just rejected most of POP in general.
As for my favorite MJ material from my limited view " Rocking Robin tweet tweet" on a little 45rpm with the Jackson 5 was my favorite.
My early impressions were good, my little sister was in love with the hated heartthrob Donny Osmond, and the J5 was the early anti Osmonds in what was then my 10 y/o world.


Senior Member

2994 Posts
2/08
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 4:19PM
The sick MJ jokes are doing the rounds, just got messaged thie one;
Some argue that MJ died of a heart attack from disappointment after hearing that Boyz II Men was a band, not a delivery service

Senior Member

"Don't let your lava love turn to stone."
6784 Posts
5/06
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 7:02PM
^...or that he choked on 9 year old nuts. I honestly have not thought much about him since Thriller. The Beer Hunter (sadly deceased as well) has been the only Michael Jackson on my radar the past couple of decades.

Senior Member

A rose is what you are to me
10480 Posts
6/03
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 7:08PM
Today my fiancee and I went to the Jackson family house in Encino, where lots of people are still gathering outside. There are tons of flowers, cards, and signs outside the front. And of course, there are lots of photographers camping out on the street (the paparazzi). And of course the street is blocked off to traffic. I can only imagine how the neighbors feel about all this. It was also hot as fuck out there, and we had trouble withstanding the heat. There are going to be large crowds there for a very long time.

Senior Member

A rose is what you are to me
10480 Posts
6/03
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 7:14PM
Outside of the Jackson 5 and "Off The Wall", I have to admit that I'm not that much of a fan, but I still wanted to pay my respects to Michael.
 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13913 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 10:28PM

I'm not disagreeing with your general sentiment, but there are others who are still able to move units from the 70's / 80's.

[/quote]
There's plenty of guys from the 70s who are still touring...but I was talking anyone who actually debuted post-MTV era. And I will cop to forgetting about Depeche Mode, The B-52s, The Cure and even U2. All of them started in 1979, but got popular in the 80s. Oh, and I forgot about REM too.
Nevertheless, when looks, hair and clothes became more important than the music in the 80s, music definitely suffered.
the unknown pervert
Deactivated User

I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch.
17482 Posts
5/06
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 10:57PM
I saw that a sealed LP of Thriller with the Grammy nominated sticker on it went for $1035 on E-Bay.
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Senior Member

A rose is what you are to me
10480 Posts
6/03
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 12:40AM
Like hair bands.

Senior Member

4717 Posts
1/03
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 2:26AM
Crowds of Idiots I'm afraid.

Senior Member

4717 Posts
1/03
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 3:20AM
No worries, all is well - Reverend Jesse is there (in LA) and now Reverend Al is on his way too.
I heard this on the 11:00 news.

Senior Member

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
3970 Posts
7/04
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 4:49AM
I assume Rev. Al is going to be leading a protest of MJ's death.

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 6:36AM
Jesse truly was a long time family friend with Chicago being a hop skip and a jump from Gary. His media whoring was expected. Not so sure what Sharpton's relationship was. Probably just bad taste.

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 7:15AM

farrah.jpg

Senior Member

If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun!
1449 Posts
10/06
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 9:37AM
I personally have a very hard time getting past the child abuse/molestation issues. In my mind it doesn't matter if you produce a cure for cancer, being a child molester trumps everything else. Yes, I know he was acquitted. He could afford good, expensive lawyers, and good expensive lawyers are supposed to get you off. Like you, I read the news stories and watched the courtroom coverage, and I think he was guilty. I see too much of the wreckage of child abuse in the ER every day. He was the entertainer of my age. Being quirky is one thing. We're all quirky in our own ways, but I just can't get past the child abuse issues.

Senior Member

"Don't let your lava love turn to stone."
6784 Posts
5/06
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 9:44AM
If a third 50 year old celeb dies soon, how crazy would that be?
 
Poetic Moderator

Long and Cursive road to the Ivory Pagoda in the province of Loraine
12553 Posts
12/03
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 2:50PM
So it begins ...
------
LOS ANGELES - Katherine Jackson has filed to a petition become the administrator of Michael Jackson's estate to ensure his three children are its beneficiaries.
The documents filed Monday in Los Angeles state that Jackson's mother should be appointed as the estate's administrator.
Joe Jackson has joined in the petition to try to designate his wife as keeper of the pop icon's estate.

Senior Member

5491 Posts
6/04
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 3:11PM
^Since I heard they found the will, I assume this would already be addressed in the will. If not, it makes sense that his parents would be the executors of his estate since his children are minors.
I'm also surprised that there has been no announcement yet for funeral arrangements. I guess one of the first things they have to do is find a venue that will be large enough to accomodate everyone who'd want to attend. You know everybody in the world is going to want to be there.
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Dianic

Wicked Pictures,Vouyer Media, Axel Braun Productions, Marc Dorcel, JoyBear Pictures, abbywinters.com
12401 Posts
7/05
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 3:13PM
You'd think he'd have done well enough from his own discography...
imtheman.jpg
Edited by - DM/PR on 6/29/2009 3:14:17 PM

Senior Member

Luton Piss On Watford... Tis True
3952 Posts
4/08
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 3:27PM
How many paedophiles do you know that are completely open about having kids stay over at their gaff?? I would hazard a guess at, er, none.

Senior Member

If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun!
1449 Posts
10/06
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 3:47PM
Actually pedophiles come in many, diverse forms. You cannot merely put them in a "fits-all" box. It is obvious by your comments that this issue about Michael doesn't bother you. OK. But it does bother me.
Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
9086 Posts
1/05
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 3:53PM
Rich ones with high levels of security, including alarms and cameras to alert occupants of the master bedroom that someone was coming. The kind of people who believe that their wealth and connections will get them out of any trouble.

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 3:56PM
As a medical professional, do you think its possible to have a disturbingly unusual fondness for children and it not be sexual or harmful in anyway?

Senior Member

If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun!
1449 Posts
10/06
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 4:07PM
^^^
There may be, but I haven't seen any. In my own experience it is usually someone close to the child. It often is a family member or a family "friend". And, while it's more than easy to blame the actor, it is very often the parent or guardian who is due a great deal of the blame for placing the child in a questionable situation that the child is unprepared to deal with. Now it's also true that this can happen without the knowledge of the parent, but many times the parent unwittingly or otherwise is the enabler for the actor.

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 5:13PM
I am just making the case how millions of people can believe Micheal Jackson did nothing criminally wrong. It is very possible that his moronic behavior was not illegal. That why we have the court system. It is possible to be insanely stupid in America and innocent at the same time.
 
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
17059 Posts
9/07
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 5:41PM
Blowfish, do you think OJ was innocent because he wasn't convicted? How would is he different from MJ?

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 5:55PM
It doesn't matter what I think because I wasn't on the jury. In OJ, the prosecution did not prove their case to that jury.
Here is a question for you - So if you are charged with a crime you are automatically guilty? There are actually people that feel that if you were innocent, you wouldn't be on trial. I'd rather 1000 guilty people go free than convict one innocent person.
Ida Lupino
Deactivated User

484 Posts
11/08
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 6:06PM
Dumbest statement ever.
New York City would have turned into a horror show.
 
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
17059 Posts
9/07
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 6:08PM
I get that they didn't convict him in a court and that's how the cookie crumbles but that doesn't mean that we don't know what the hell really went down. If Phil Spector got off he'd still be guilty.

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 6:15PM
So lock him up just in case? Why bother with a trial?

Senior Member

If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun!
1449 Posts
10/06
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 6:20PM
Many people are acquitted who are not "innocent". If you can afford to hire smart, expensive lawyers, you can walk on any number of technicalities. Some cop who didn't quite read Miranda word for word. Some item here..some forensic evidence that wasn't absolutely perfect. There's often little doubt that this person or that is guilty, but for some reason they get acquitted..But they were not innocent. To move away from the OJ debate, take a look at John Gotti. He walked over and over because his smart, expensive lawyer got him off over & over again on technicalities. It wasn't until Bruce Cutler lost his standing at the bench and Sam Gravano talked that Gotti was convicted, and in the course of that conviction, there was plenty of evidence presented that he was indeed guilty of all the things that Bruce Cutler had been able to get him off on. "Justice" is often available to those with the bank account to be able to hire the keenest legal minds and the best speaking lawyers available. Had Michael Jackson been a poor man living in Chicago for example, with the amount of evidence presented at his trial, he would have most certainly been living in a prison cell by now. Justice is rarely blind. More often than not it is keenly sighted on somebody's available bank account.

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 6:27PM
Mindee,
That's our legal system. Depending on the crime you could have the full resources of the state against you. Once its etched in their brain, they have one goal - conviction. As a defendant your choice is to either take a public defender who won't spend more that an hour preparing for your trial or you mortgage your house.
Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
9086 Posts
1/05
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 6:48PM
The thing about pedophilia and other forms of child abuse is that today's victim all to often becomes tomorrow's predator. We as a society spend very little time and money trying to change that terrible correlation.

Senior Member

Subterfuge......
17161 Posts
4/07
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 6:48PM
So true there mindee,not so long ago this was the main news item in the UK

Senior Member

A rose is what you are to me
10480 Posts
6/03
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 6:50PM
Sure, a lot of those people are obsessed fanatics who think Michael is God. But there are others (like me and my fiancee) who simply want to pay their respects. I was never caught up in Michaelmania.
6868

Senior Member

Subterfuge......
17161 Posts
4/07
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 7:46PM
The details of Michael Jackson's autopsy have been leaked, reportedly showing the star to be in an advanced state of decline at the time of his death.
According to The Sun, Jackson was "severely emaciated" and weighed 8st 1oz when he died, while his stomach was empty except for partially-dissolved pills that have been sent for tests.
The singer is said to have been wearing a wig and had lost almost all his hair, with only a "peach fuzz" covering his scalp.
His thighs, shoulders and hips were marked with needle wounds resulting from painkiller injections, while four needle entry sites were found near his chest following failed attempts to restart his heart with adrenaline.
A source close to the Jackson entourage said: "Michael's family and fans will be horrified when they realise the appalling state he was in.
"He was skin and bone, his hair had fallen out and had been eating nothing but pills when he died. Injection marks all over his body and the disfigurement caused by years of plastic surgery show he'd been in terminal decline for years."
It has been reported that Jackson's family had asked for a second autopsy to be carried out on the body of the star.

Senior Member

If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun!
1449 Posts
10/06
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 8:21PM
I find it interesting that when Michael Jackson died he was in many ways in the same sorry shape as Howard Hughes and Elivs Presley.

Senior Member

If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun!
1449 Posts
10/06
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 8:25PM
Yes, I understand that. If you're in trouble, you had better hire the best you can get. Only on TV do you find some brilliant public-minded individual who's toiling away "for the people" in the Public Defender's office. It's one of the reasons I hate the ER-based TV medical shows. The reality is far, far away from what's happening on the tube. BTW...the Showtime program "Nurse Jackie" is much closer to reality.

Senior Member

If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun!
1449 Posts
10/06
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 8:30PM
Yes, you're right. And in the case of Michael Jackson, long before these discussions were taking place, there were plenty of discussions about the mental & verbal abuse that Michael Jackson suffered at the hands of his father Joe. Too often, abuse is a disease of silence. The Catholic Church is more than enough proof of this. They have been practicing institutionalized abuse forever. And the fact that they continue to sweep it under the rug is unconscienable.

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 9:04PM
What hospital do you work at? King-Harbor LA?
 
All-Star Member

Marv Montag ()
5437 Posts
2/09
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 9:33PM
Variation of a Benjamin Franklin quote, I believe--perhaps others, too.

Senior Member

blackcockchurch.com
7515 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 9:50PM
My first guess would have been Confucius but no--I didn't originate the saying.
Fernandez
Deactivated User

853 Posts
12/08
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 10:05PM
If Elvis had molested kids and then changed himself into a scary ugly woman, he would never have sold a record, and would have disappeared into oblivion.

 
All-Star Member

Marv Montag ()
5437 Posts
2/09
Posted - Jun 29 2009 : 10:20PM
It's a good quote.
Edited by - fu_q on 6/29/2009 10:21:07 PM
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