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All-Star Member

Non Prevalebunt!
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Posted - Jun 10 2019 : 4:16PM
^
Gipsies are discriminated over the prejudice of being "theves" "kidnappers of babies" and many bad thing but they're not usually considered as inferiors as a race
The Nazis put them in extermination lagers along with the Jewish basically because they were "parasites" and "useless" rather than an inferir race

I'd call that racism even though it doesn't match you're first definition wich in my view looks taylored over Black people

there are many forms or racism sometimes cultural, the Palestinians in Kuwait were discriminated and maintained at the lower social level , when Saddam invaded the Emirate they passed en masse with the invaders , in the territories in lebanon and Israel the Palestininias supported saddam from the very beginning against Kwait for their treatment and they're ALL Arabs, the very same race.

There are many others discriminations in the world

Edited by - LCF on 6/10/2019 4:19:04 PM


Member

291 Posts
7/16
Posted - Jun 11 2019 : 1:52AM
^^ You've made my point. There's so much of discrimination which is non race related, that the whole black-white racism in porn seems almost petty, if it exists.

In porn the biggest thing currently from a discrimination point of view is sexism. But is anyone worried or fighting about that? And this comes from all sides, directors, agents producers and fans.

Both of my definitions come from the Oxford dictionary. I hope you don't think that they're now racist?


Member

26 Posts
4/19
Posted - Jun 11 2019 : 2:14AM
Its not petty. Literally performers get paid more if they shoot with a black guy. Why bc of the racism in the industry. Basically what they're saying is they have to pay you more as if its hazard pay.

Member

321 Posts
10/17
Posted - Jun 11 2019 : 3:40AM
^ They deserve to get paid more - if shooting IR will drive more traffic to a site then the performers deserve more since they're bringing more money in. Athletes are rewarded with larger contracts, sales reps get larger commissions, etc... you bring money to the table via clicks and subs and you're a fool if you don't ask for more.
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Member

291 Posts
7/16
Posted - Jun 11 2019 : 12:50PM
How is it racist? The black guys still gets paid as much as the white guys....and as mentioned before most woman in porn are independent contractors.

Do you also claim it's racism if a black owned supermarket sells an item cheaper than white owned supermarket? Because it's the exact same concepts.

The black guys in porn have a choice of not shooting with white girls if it means white girls will get paid more to shoot with them, but they don't do they? So whose fault is it? And whose really the racist here? The black guy?

You mentioned that there's 'hazard' pay. The fact of the matter is that IR scenes while not all the time, do tend to be more rough than normal scenes. And to be fair taking dicks that big so hard has got to do some damage, and they definitely feel it. So it might be hazard pay, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

Lastly as mentioned, IR porn is quite popular compared to normal porn, so the woman who shot it deserved to be compensated more if the producers are going to make more money of it.

If porn were really racist, no respectable black people would even be part of it. But they are many who chose to be part of it. So why not take these issues directly with them. Go on twitter and pressure black performers to boycott the porn industry until your ideal 'equality' is achieved.


Senior Member

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Posted - Jun 11 2019 : 9:29PM
^jesus!!!
 
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

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Posted - Jun 12 2019 : 3:26PM
^ I was going to write a careful critique in reply, but this basically covers it.

Member

49 Posts
10/16
Posted - Jun 13 2019 : 1:31PM
There were racial laws against gipsies that stated their inferior racial status but they were classified as "asocial" in Lager. They are an odd case: initially studied by Nazis becouse of a possible common indogermanic rooth, they were then considered something like a doomed race, that lost the original arian purity after mixing with lower eastern population. Even stranger, gipsie families were allowed to live togheter in the Zigeunerlager in Birkenau, the only place where pregnant women managed to deliver without having to kill their baby. They didn't have to face the selection but they were mostly left to die due to starvation and diseases. The camp was completely exterminated after the invasion of Hungary.

To stay in topic, I do find IR porn racist and I could not understand for the life of me the obsession about it. This is the only I will always love.


Member

280 Posts
11/14
Posted - Jun 13 2019 : 3:04PM
What IR essentially is is a vessel to sell big dicked hypermasculine porn. There's nothing inherently wrong with this save for the race reductionism. The blacks are all chads and the whites tend to be your basic porn minimum sized brads(to use incel language). Diversify things is what I say. Try to select for hyper masculine well endowed white males, John Holmes was not exactly a scarcity, rare yes but there are plenty of salt of earth USians and Euro whites who pack what John Holmes packed.

I also think you have to look at the context of GenX and what came about during that era. You had the rise of the white emo type male and the metrosexual a little later. These are not exactly archetypes of alpha masculinity. At the same time you had the rise of gangsta rap and the rise of that particular hypermasculine male. We are basically stuck in a Gen X loop of these frames of reference. You have to go back to 80s hairband days where you had socially referential alpha white males. Some type of correction will have to happen and there are signs of this happening within certain male conscious alt-cultural spaces. I have problems with a number of these views but it could be part of a correction in the end where black males are not the main signifyer of the chad alpha sexual archetype.


Member

164 Posts
3/17
Posted - Jun 13 2019 : 11:41PM
Haha. When I see BBC, I think of, well, the BBC. (Oh my! Those broadcasting regulations certainly have changed, haven't they!)

But seriously, it's obvious to me that "IR" porn will bother some people--understandably so. To answer the old cliche, I think art reflects (and should reflect) the world around us in all its diversity...and that's not only the "diversity" defined narrowly these days in some parts. It's more than just skin color and gender, it's diversity in beliefs, and mindsets, and opinions, and emotions, and lifestyles, and all the good in the world and the ugly stuff too.

Porn really is a wealth of self-expression, and I love it for that.

Edited by - zingerbrook on 6/13/2019 11:42:41 PM

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we the people in order to form a more perfect union...
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Posted - Jun 16 2019 : 2:27AM
You don't get out much do you?

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Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 1:11AM
Is it possible these type of ideas are gaining traction because of the recent success of IR porn? Think about it like this:

-Over the past few years, Blacked has dominated the porn DVD sales. Their DVDs are routinely at #1 on the sales chart and have a ton of longevity. Now, Blacked Raw is just as dominant making IR often dominate the top of the charts.

-Jules Jordan seems to do best with his Dredd stuff and other IR material. So much so that it seems half of his releases are IR.

-Mason went and created a whole studio (Dark X) while still producing IR content with Hard X.

-Elegant Angel is producing IR versions of their signature series, such as Big Wet Asses.

I can see how someone who's not a fan of IR porn being annoyed by this, and making these claims.

 
All-Star Member

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Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 2:16AM
^
They're gaining traction especially because the porn producers found a way to lower the rates of the stars for a valuable product so they could earn more at their expenses

Member

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Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 7:34AM
^Is that not true for anal, DP, etc.?
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Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 8:00AM
Have you ever seen people attacking models for charging higher rates for anal or dp? Never happens, the worst that probably happens is 'fans' wanting to do it all from the start. Then take a look at IR, lately models are heavily criticised for wanting more, by other performers and 'fans', while those types of scenes are fetishised and heavily advertised. Just the names of those websites imply it's more than just the colour contrast customers like to see.

Senior Member

1186 Posts
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Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 9:40AM
^ It's because heavy training for anal/DP/DAP is required (sounds like it hurts) while working with a black man does not require any training, it's just personal preference which I don't think is right at all. You can't treat IR and anal as the same at all. I don't care how it's marketed or whatever. There are so many black male performers and even black female performers who struggle in the industry because of the discrimination and stereotypes against them.

Member

584 Posts
10/10
Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 10:25AM
^ the websites are trying to make more money of women performing with black guys, so why shouldn't they be compensated fairly?

Member

Ass-obsessed
607 Posts
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Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 11:17AM
Yes, for the most part.

One exception that comes to mind is Giorgio Grandi, one of the directors for Legal Porno.

He has a series called "Waka waka, blacks are coming".

Which probably is meant to imply that his black performers came just out of the african bush. Apart from that, the scenes are the same misogynistic shit like the rest of his work: women getting at least two dicks in the ass for the majority of the scene, being slapped in the face, sometimes being pissed upon.

But obviously there are many who share his bad taste and get off on stuff like that, otherwise his scenes would not sell so well.


Member

269 Posts
12/13
Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 1:43PM
^So now something is "bad taste" because you don't like it?

That's as crazy as people who say it's a scientific fact that bands like Nickelback, Creed and 3 Doors Down are not good.


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Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 5:06PM
At least I hope there is consensus on that one.

Member

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Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 5:18PM
^ I think most people will agree to accept IR rimming in scenes before they'll accept Nickleback and Creed being good music.

Member

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Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 6:06PM
LOL. Personally, I like that style of rock music. I understand it's not everybody's cup of tea, but I feel like there's a lot of arrogance in saying that it is factual information that they suck. I also like a lot of rock music that would be more respected here (Iron Maiden, Rush, Soundgarden) but I would never try to say it's a fact that it's good.

I just think there's an extreme level of arrogance behind the idea that a genre of porn is in poor taste just because one individual doesn't like it. This is an attitude that gets applied to some genres of porn and not others.


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Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 6:12PM
Agreed - it only becomes an issue when the pushback comes in the same absolute terms and without an ounce of acknowledgement that someone can disagree.

Member

269 Posts
12/13
Posted - Jun 17 2019 : 7:42PM
^Well said. There's nothing wrong with disliking IR, but to try to say that those of us who like it are racists is too much. It's also ok to dislike rough porn, but to jump to the conclusion that it's degrading and misogynistic is also too much.

On the flip side, Alexis Texas is one of my favorite performers of all-time, and it really grinds my gears when people call her a racist for not doing IR. There's ridiculous claims on all sides.

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Posted - Jun 21 2019 : 1:57PM
I think one site that deserves a positive shout out is American Pornstar . They do the big dick hypermasculine thing but they are more ethnic neutral in their overall performing body then other sites who are within the same market ball park(dogfart IR pass ect)

Member

141 Posts
9/18
Posted - Jun 21 2019 : 3:08PM
This same logic can be applied to any IR scene. Think hard. There’s a reason why white female pornstars have a higher demand than non-white female pornstars. It’s pretty simple if you push the clouds in front of your eyes away.
Robinson Prowse
Deactivated User

13 Posts
6/19
Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 5:58PM
It's interesting how the whole IR genre revolves around "white female/black man" and that's basically the norm.

I agree that there has been an unhealthy approach to the genre like the OP said in the initial post. You will see a lot of weird stuff that companies like Dogfart pushes with the black power stuff with encourages a lot of racist people. That's why I see some disturbing amount of Twitter accounts claiming a new IR mixing order but weirdly enough, it only boils down to white female/black man.

Lulubell
MindGeek Devotee

1764 Posts
1/19
Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 6:14PM
I'm on Demi Sutra or Ricky Johnson's train tbh, like IR should stop being even a category in porn btw, because literally porn as the main world is changeing so I think that "IR" is a bussiness TODAY, but from 2 or 3 years more it's gonna be totally over, I'm 100% sure...
I'm not ok about reading "1st anal" then "1st IR anal" "1st DP" then "1st IR DP" like if black and white men were different, let's say Danny D is a white man and he has the best dick on the whole industry and what's with that? Just label those scenes like "big dick" or "big penis" no matter if it's black or white, that's it...
Same way I also don't like to know that an actress charges more money for working with a black man, How can it be that if I work with a white guy it's a price if I do it with a black guy it's more money, Why?

And also I want to say something more, is a very macho system, Why you don't have the same obsecion or the same category to see black women with white men for example? Or is not the same? (as Demi Sutra once says) for me that's super macho tbh...


Edited by - Lulubell on 6/27/2019 6:18:30 PM

Edited by - Lulubell on 6/27/2019 6:42:02 PM

 
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

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Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 6:42PM
^ If macho is rooted in white supremacy (and it is) then yes.

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Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 6:51PM
^But as Maxxx said above, macho hasn't really been seen as a "white" thing for over a quarter century.
 
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

goregoregirl.com
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Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 6:57PM
^ Not “white”. Rooted in white supremacy.
Lulubell
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Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 7:09PM
Macho to me means this: in porn today black men has so much more work possibilities than black women, and that's a fact.

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Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 7:22PM
Yup, white supremacy.

R-1597775-1235204666.jpeg.jpg


Member

321 Posts
10/17
Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 7:25PM
Also, you guys keep acting like charging more for a scene that is more in demand and will yield a higher return is somehow wrong. Yes, it's a black costar, and that's going to lead to more sales/subs/etc... why should the company keep the same portion of the money when everyone knows it's going to make more?
 
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

goregoregirl.com
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Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 7:36PM
Oh yes this is definitely true. This is due to misogyny and racism combined (dual oppression).
Lulubell
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Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 7:37PM
Try to have a job in real life where you earn money if you work with a white man and more money if your partner is a black man to see how you would be seen by the rest of society today in 2019 and then we can talk about it...

(To me basically having 2 companies in white men work and two others in which only black men work, lags a lot in time...)

Edited by - Lulubell on 6/27/2019 7:40:28 PM
Robinson Prowse
Deactivated User

13 Posts
6/19
Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 7:48PM
^ Yeah. I'm sure it would be a big controversy if for example, a big company was catched by paying more to a white man than a black man despite doing the exact same thing and having the same position (and I'm not talking about commissions) or vice-versa.

Edited by - Robinson Prowse on 6/27/2019 7:49:20 PM


Member

321 Posts
10/17
Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 8:14PM
^^ That's a truly bad analogy, but you already knew that.

Contractors can set their asking price for a scene for any reason they wish. If the scene will make more then they should ask for more, that's just painfully common sense. If the scene will make less they'll be offered less.

When the IR fad passes and women aren't able to ask for more than a 'standard', will you be wailing into the wind that white women are paid less than they were in 2018 to perform with black men? No, once the profitability of the genre fades so will the ability to ask for more money.

The fact that you, and others like you, illogically refuse to accept there are perfectly valid reasons to ask for more money to perform in high-demand scenes only shows who it is that is really hung up on race...

Lulubell
MindGeek Devotee

1764 Posts
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Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 8:49PM

I'm in favor of people earning the same money regardless of whether it is a man or a woman, what race you have, what size of genitals, how many tattoos or what type of body you have, that is very clear. ..
I think that my arguments are valid enough as you don't have to counteract them so you can keep turning on the same idea ...
We already know in what way people think here, we are saying that we don't agree with that at all and why we aren't (at least, in my case).

And something to emphasize: not everything that is in mode or is a "trend" means that it's good or worthwhile, and sometimes those "modes" leave many people outside or with less possibilities to work too...



Member

321 Posts
10/17
Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 9:38PM
^ Perhaps I misread your response, so you do acknowledge that there are indeed other reasons besides bigotry, racism, and or discrimination that would push someone to ask for more to do an IR scene?

It's unfortunate that the three examples above do exist, but to have an honest discussion other factors have to be accounted for.


Senior Member

3487 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 10:38PM
^Is it really true that IR scenes are actually more profitable? You are stating it as fact. What is the proof? And if true, does the director and the editor and the producer and the camera operator also collect a bigger paycheck because they are involved in a higher-profit project?

Member

269 Posts
12/13
Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 10:47PM
^The proof is in the extremely strong and consistent DVD sales that IR titles get. Nearly every Blacked title hits #1 on the Adult Empire sales chart, and Blacked, Blacked Raw and Jules Jordan Dredd titles often occupy several spots in the top 10.

Clearly more people are willing to pay to see someone like Tori Black in an interracial scene than in a non-interracial scene. So she should be allowed to make more money off of it.


Member

321 Posts
10/17
Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 11:01PM
Besides the popularity of the sites, the DVD sales (three of the top 5 this month alone), and the growing widespread general acceptance of how it's being portrayed... I believe that would count as objective and subjective proof that it is indeed a popular genre. With that popularity comes money via subs, clip sales, DVD sales, etc... the exact same thing can be said for the pseudo-incest genre. If it weren't selling it wouldn't be produced at the level that it is and women wouldn't be able to ask for more to shoot the scenes if the money wasn't there to be asked for.

I don't know if the lighting team is paid more but is that somehow relevant to the discussion of how contract performers can earn more or less depending on the scene?

You can question the profitability, the subs, or whatever else isn't really related to the conversation and I'll reply as best as I can without petitioning industry types for receipts. But let's not pretend the genre isn't popular right now and let's further not pretend that widespread popularity isn't a good, albeit not precise, way to measure how much money it generates for the people behind the scenes.

Lulubell
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Posted - Jun 27 2019 : 11:38PM
In a top 20 of best selling movies (adult empire) you only have 4 titles that are about IR and all the rest is anal, gangbang, dp too most of all, so bcs #1 and #2 are IR titles we're not going to say that it's ALL about that category in porn today people...
And most to this topic in "trending" chart the 1st IR title in #7 and the other ones are #11 and #15 so, the rest of that top 20 is about other categories...
And in "all time best sellers" you don't have any title (it's literally all about Digital Playground contract girls era).

-And this is the "dvd" section, bcs in "on demand" is another thing...

Edited by - Lulubell on 6/27/2019 11:42:02 PM

Edited by - Lulubell on 6/27/2019 11:53:47 PM

 
All-Star Member

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Posted - Jun 28 2019 : 12:52AM
^
You said it #1 and #2 that mean those selling more or in other words generating more incomes.

the DP contract star era is not even comparable first a lot less people had a decent internet speed , secondly there were a lot more porn stores in that era , I'd say 90% of the stores are out of business today


Member

321 Posts
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Posted - Jun 28 2019 : 12:54AM
^^ So we're questioning my statement that IR is very popular now, therefore more profitable because it's selling more, and women should be able to ask for more because of it? Or are we avoiding the simple acknowledgement that there are other reasons why someone would ask for more money to shoot IR besides that they're a racist?

Edited by - upsux on 6/28/2019 12:54:49 AM


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28 Posts
6/19
Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 9:33AM
Hi all, first time posting here and I'd like to toss my 2 cents into this topic.

First of all I've been reading this smartbuydisc.ru and have been watching this thread for awhile now and I can't believe no one has called out user stoneblade's post here: <a href=//smartbuydisc.ru/casadoscontos/racism-behind-obsessive-love-for-ir-pornography/reply/3510755>Racism behind obsessive love for IR pornography?</a> info-graphic that is present as a "fact".

A reverse image search shows that info-graphic is from a very controversial "study" done in 2013 and let me quote: The survey of 60 students – 10 each of whom described themselves as white, Indian, East Asian, mixed race, black or "coloured", was carried out by student Qamran Tabo to go alongside an article she wrote for Varsity newspaper entitled "Is Love Colour Blind?"

I leave you all to make of that what you will.

As for my opinions on the topic of this thread, is racism behind the labeling of IR? My answer to that is no. It's just another category for porn. Some studios may choose instead of IR and go with BBC or Black guy. Some may not label an IR performance at all, and it's the fans who will label it as such on sites like Reddit or some other. The labeling itself isn't racist. For one it helps those like me to search to see if a porn performer has done IR.

What is racist is the outright refusal to do IR. Now I'm sorry, it's 2019 and the excuses doesn't cut it anymore. If an unapologetic Trump supporting Mia Melano done IR straight out of the gate (twice), then no one else has any excuse. Heming and hawing about dick size makes zero sense because I've seen those who makes that excuse, go on and perform with White co-stars with large dicks. One example of which is Kesha Ortega in her Woodman casting interview where she swears she doesn't want to perform with Black men is due to dick size. Yeah right, look the sizes of the dicks she does perform with, and you tell me that's not a load of bull. That's racism. I love Mia Melano and all the other performers who goes straight into IR and doesn't beat around the bush. And thankfully, there is a lot of beautiful women who doesn't have any qualms about performing and giving great performances with men of different races. And I support them for doing so.

Stars like Mia Melano, Avi Love, Nina North, Bella Roland, Athena Faris, Danni Rivers, Sophia Leone, River Fox, Lily Rader, Evelyn Claire, Zoe Bloom, Sailor Luna, Stevie Grey, Naomi Woods and others has my full support and should be commended and I buy whatever they perform in because they don't keep stringing along something that they or may not do.

Being a porn star is providing a fantasy. It's not going on a date or marrying someone of your choosing. It's a fantasy, a job, and if a performer couldn't be bothered to perform with a Black costar for any amount of money, even though they have fans continually requesting for them to do so, that's racism. IR is profitable. For example: Rosalyn Sphinx. She refuses to do IR with males and whether or not that has to do with her boyfriend Juan "Caballo Loco", I don't know. Her peers has no issues in performing IR, but I digest. Googling Rosalyn Sphinx+IR or Bella Rose+IR you're presented with them with a Black dick...on a White guy. The ultimate troll. For me at least, if a porn star will go out of her way and perform with every porn company and porn star with the exception being performing with Black men, there is no other way to excuse that except for that being racist behavior. In the U.S., no other industry is allowed to get away with that and I'm not sure why porn is the exception. Labeling yourself as an independent contractor shouldn't shield someone from racist behavior in performing a job. Obviously, I'm not a lawyer. With that said, ultimately, it's the women's choice and it's also my choice to not throw good money after bad in rewarding female performers who will not provide the fantasy of them performing with a Black man. And because I love IR, no performer will get a single cent from me until I know they've done IR.

Just my 2 cents. Sorry about the long read.


Member

The Atrax
862 Posts
8/15
Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 9:50AM
Sorry but in my opinion it's always simple to tell if a girl doesn't want sex with a black man she is racist !!!
In my casting I'm always asking girls if they had or want have sex with black men but also asian. Curiously it's always about black that people complain. But you can see many different reactions from girls and mostly what they want the less it's asian !!!
I think sex it's like food you have the right to love or hate pasta, been, tomatoes etc ... without someone tell "it's racism" !!!
Some girls vegan for instance are angry on me because I love meat. And what ???
Everyone should have the right to decide about what he wants and doesn't want to have on his dick or inside vagina.
I did some casting of black girls in L-A telling me they hate sex with white men. Did I considere them as racist ??? No, it's their tastes and I respect that ...

PW

ps: I love all type of girls, I had many black girls in my life and also asians. For me all are good but all are very differents, the skin, the taste of pussies, the hairs, the way of kissing, and also because of that I can understand it could repulse some people without taking it as racism.

I have a serie called "Cappuccino XXX" and I like to see a beautiful girl been taken by a huge black dick, but it's true I have a lot of "no thanks" from girls; not because of the color of the performer but because of the dick size. When comes times to do anal sex, the sound of the music is very clear, smaller it is, better it is !!!
Nothing connected to racism on that too ...

Edited by - PIERRE WOODMAN on 6/30/2019 9:57:54 AM


Member

321 Posts
10/17
Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 9:50AM
^^ Chalk up another point for the 'do what I want or you're a racist' team.

Edited by - upsux on 6/30/2019 9:51:03 AM

Edited by - upsux on 6/30/2019 10:19:47 AM


Member

28 Posts
6/19
Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 10:36AM
Thanks for your response Woodman. Yes, if a female performer refuses to do a scene with an Asian guy, that's racist behavior along with Black females refusing to be cast with White men. It's wrong, no matter how one to twist it. Porn is a job, not a dating game the way I see it.

I don't understand those who cry "just because a female refuses to perform with someone of a different race isn't racist!" Um, that is exactly one of the definitions of racist behavior. It's based on race. For a job. That you're being paid for. Not sure why that's so hard to understand.

For those female porns stars who choose to perform with stars only of a certain race, or leaves out a certain race or races, is it surprising in 2019 that they get the racist label? Or questions being brought up about it? I mean, really?

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