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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 10:42AM
You guys are all derailing the thread the OP was talking about VIEWERS not performers.
He said that those IR obsessed are racist , it's the race play what interest them and especially the combination BM/WF not just a porn scene involving different people
 
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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 10:47AM
I don't see any campaign to force the stars to lower their rates furthermore it's implied a higher rate for every Anal, DP ets whereas not only most stars only raise the rates for their first IR only and not for every IR scene but apparently they shouldn't even do that for their first
Lulubell
MindGeek Devotee

1764 Posts
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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 10:56AM
And to offer more money to work with a black man by the companies is not being in that way too? And to name "first anal" and then "first IR anal" as if black men were different for example? The companies must also take care of what they generate in the xxx public and in the main business tbh...

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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 11:27AM
If the black male performers don't have a problem with it, then why should we?
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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 11:43AM
It's different to the market.
In every single entertainment market what generate more incomes is paid more , the performers get a share of the earnings, but apparently in porn those generating those major earnings aren't allowed to do so moreover those generate valuable incomes more than once with multiple issues , compilation remastered editions (interracialPass is doing this a while now) But the star who performed that are only paid ONCE and there's a campaign so that they shouldn't even get the slightest share of the astounding amount of money they generate.

try to convince a Football top player that he shouldn't earn more than the average sportsmen


Member

280 Posts
11/14
Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 11:45AM
To build on what lulubell said in regards to getting rid of the IR category, a proposition I have made is to simply replace IR and BBC with XL(Xtra large) and XLD(Dick). You could still have sub categorical race fetishism but at least you would be making a better bankable landscape for black women by doing this. It's obvious that IR is going for that well endowed hypermasculine craving which is fine but the IR category and market is a bad way to go about this. Bring on the big dick vikings. Remember that John Holmes was one of the original big dick performers, men like him have not exactly gone extinct and if you look around enough you'll find the yellow/asian variant as well.
 
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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 11:47AM
^
Not all Black Performers has an XL dick besides what about black females?

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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 12:07PM
^I agree LCF. As I pointed out in another post there are unwarranted standards for black males to be XL chads as opposed to porn size minimum brads. Not all black guys have the personality of the black stereotype. All the more reason to go in a post racial race neutral direction on these kinds of market interests.
Lulubell
MindGeek Devotee

1764 Posts
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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 12:31PM
IR itself is a really macho category if we want to be honest, bcs it should be same ways but you only see more black men with white women when I'm seeing many many comments in social media today asking companies to shot more black women with white guys too, that's a fact. I love when I see those scenes in RK for example or in Brazzers, it's a little unfair you know, because there are not the same opportunities.
Lulubell
MindGeek Devotee

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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 12:34PM
There are many women who say not also to Danny D for example (especially in what is about making anal) for hes size so sometimes not everything is about race, just you don't want a big big dick inside your vagina, that's all...

Senior Member

4047 Posts
2/07
Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 1:52PM
So what does it say when the girl you've branded as "Racist" actually starts doing IR scenes later in her career? Does she suddenly stop being racist? Is she not racist from that point forward? Does she retroactively stop being racist in her past? Is she still a racist who just happens to have sex with black men on film? Is there a new label you need to apply to her?

Member

28 Posts
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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 3:02PM
I can't speak for everyone, but as for me, if a porn performer starts doing IR later in her career, and they've been on my radar, at that point I couldn't care less what she does. I already lost interest.

To start doing IR when a performer is already old (I do love the mature porn performers too, so don't get me wrong there) or is trying to jump start her career again, or other agencies lost interest in working with her so she feels IR is the only way to go forward, why should anyone who is into IR care at that point? Should we be begging for crumbs? Think again. Obviously the message from that performer is working with Black co-stars is a second thought or means of last resort. Which is why those female performs who shuns the (racist in imho) view of wait till later in your career to do IR, has my whole support in everything she does in her porn career.

And to those who says doing IR right out of the gate will only ruin someone's career, that's also shown to be bull. Look at Mia Melano for the rebuttal on that. Or Eliza Ibarra, or Nina North, or Avi Love and others.

Now it could be said that some who do IR may shun Black men in their personal life, but my response to that is so? Personal life is one thing, but to do a job is another matter. Performing in porn is getting paid to provide a fantasy.

 
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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 3:22PM
IR exists in gay porn too , let's not be homophobic and remember straight sex is not the only porn that is, in gay porn there's a double role the black guy isn't necessarily the macho active one

Member

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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 5:07PM
^^ I'm not sure anyone really believes in the 'IR ruins your career' mantra anymore - it's a very popular niche in the porn market and there are increasingly more and more models adding it to their roster early on. Speaking of which...

What's your timeline for a new model to shoot an IR scene? If she does it later in her career you say you've already written her off, but you never bothered to tell us what your expectations are for their careers. Should every model be pressured or expected to click every little box on the porn menu when they're in their first few months, year, etc... so that every special interest is met?

Further, why should a performer who 'shuns' someone else, regardless of the reason, be expected to put aside their preference because of your fantasy? If an asian model says she doesn't want to work with white men, which limits her career potential immensely, shouldn't she be allowed to make that decision? Should a black female who isn't attracted to asian men be pressured to do at least one scene with an asian because someone has that fantasy? How about the fantasy of an asian gangbang with a black model, should she be chided into doing that just so you can say she did it?

You should care a little more about the real, personal aspects of performers because that plays such a large part in what they do in front of the camera. We're not watching robots (yet) so you could be well served to put aside your ridiculous expectations of what other people do with their lives and just enjoy what they've chosen to share with us.

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Member

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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 5:31PM
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea of I want to force every performer to do IR. And my timeline is no concern of yours to be honest. As I said in my previous comment, that choice is ultimately up to the performer. And like everything in life, they have to live with other people's views on their decision. It's not rocket science. I have the choice of "not wanting enjoy what they've chosen to share with us" if they don't want to get paid to provide a fantasy that I like. I shrug and move on. Big whoopty do. I spend my money on what I like. Thankfully there are a lot of gorgeous women entering porn who are not hung on ancient stupidity in regards to race and those I choose to spend my money on.

I made my original post to answer the OP's question of is the label IR racist? And my answer is no, refusing to do so is. Once again just to make myself clear, I'm not implying that every porn actress has to do IR, just stating the fact that should they refuse to do it, they're going to get labeled as such.


Senior Member

4047 Posts
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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 6:05PM
Speaking in general here and not to you directly....in fact I should've picked another post to reply to...but anyway.....

Many fans don't want to hear about the idea of a girl pacing their career and not doing everything from the start but a girl pacing their career is smart business sense and most girls do it. They might just pick certain things to do sooner than others and they might get to those things at a faster pace than some other girls do simply because they need to while some might not. Some girls may choose to hold off on IR, some might hold off on anal, some might hold off on DP or threesomes, some hold off on creampies or whatever. It only makes sense. Every girl's career has an arc. Why shouldn't she hold on to something that may give her career a boost if/when needed. Also keep in mind that just because a girl does IR in the first 6 months of her career, that doesn't mean she didn't do it to give her career a boost. Maybe she didn't plan to do IR but she decided she wasn't as popular as she thought she should be and decided IR would get her where she thought she should be.

Everyone is free to have their opinion but having these made up timelines in your head and labeling the girl as racist when they don't meet imaginary deadlines is just silly and small thinking. Unless the girls comes out and explains her decision fans have no idea what their thought process is or why they've made the decision they've made. Here's a crazy thought...not every girl needs to do IR and it's not a high priority in their career path. That doesn't mean their racist. That doesn't mean they don't want to do a scene with a black guy. That doesn't mean it's something they're saving for when their career is tanking.


Member

321 Posts
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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 6:06PM
^^ So if someone doesn't want to shoot an IR scene then she's a racist because that's the only possible reason she won't fulfill your fantasy.

Got it.

Edited by - upsux on 6/30/2019 6:07:23 PM


Member

28 Posts
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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 7:00PM
^^ You seem to be taking this pretty personal. -shrug.

I've said enough here.


Member

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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 7:31PM
for me the answer of the question is yes
porn is full of cliché and compagnies play with it

Member

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Posted - Jun 30 2019 : 7:54PM

[/quote]
It's different to the market.
In every single entertainment market what generate more incomes is paid more , the performers get a share of the earnings, but apparently in porn those generating those major earnings aren't allowed to do so moreover those generate valuable incomes more than once with multiple issues , compilation remastered editions (interracialPass is doing this a while now) But the star who performed that are only paid ONCE and there's a campaign so that they shouldn't even get the slightest share of the astounding amount of money they generate.

try to convince a Football top player that he shouldn't earn more than the average sportsmen
[/quote]
I don't think you use the good analogy a top player earn more because he put good performance a hell of a show
so as a top player he gets a high rating
but i think's it's corny when girls charge more for IR and claiming it's because it sells more and all those funny stuffs because those manuel ferrera dvds do pretty well and i don't think they charge more on him for example

 
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Posted - Jul 1 2019 : 12:41AM
^
He's a top player people goes to watch him he generates more incomes , he gets a share of those getting paid more.


In mainstream Cinema happens the very same thing, some of the performers generate more incomes than other and they get a share of them getting paid more

In here everybody is saying that despite IR is generating more incomes due to its popularity and despite firsts iR especially generate even more for the site having them, still the performers at the very origins of such raised incomes shouldn't get a shit of those.

funny, why this should work backwards compared to anything else in any market? where the more incomes you generate the more you earn.


Member

The Atrax
862 Posts
8/15
Posted - Jul 1 2019 : 2:47AM
Right !!!
Maybe I should accuse all girls who don't want sex with a old, or fat, or hairy man to do racism because in a way it's a discrimination too !!! LOL

PW


Member

28 Posts
6/19
Posted - Jul 1 2019 : 6:43AM
and that's why porn don't evolve
you guys prefers say it is what it is
it ain't racism and all that
rather than recognizne there's inner racism in mainstream porn
even guys like james deen said it before

Member

28 Posts
6/19
Posted - Jul 1 2019 : 7:06AM
so tell me
working with pierre woodman or working with joss lescaf ain't the same thing
ain't just a boy girl scene ?
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Posted - Jul 1 2019 : 7:12AM
^
You gotta be kidding , try getting both up the ass and then tell us they're the same

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Posted - Jul 1 2019 : 7:38AM
I have a black father and a white mother so I'm labelled black. OK. But I also have to live with stereotyping as a result and I am accused of being too senstive if I comment on it. In this very smartbuydisc.ru a while back I was accused of being patronising when I pondered on why people are so bothered about whether a new porn star has black blood in her or not.
Stereotyping can be used affectionately, as it often is in the UK between Scots and English, but in porn it is usually different. I have also commented before on the use of terms like "jungle", ghetto" and "gangsta" in porn titles which are offensive to me because I've been on the receiving end of such stereotypes all my life. I've also seen titles with "slope" and "chink". This is not a pointless thread at all; in fact I applaud the discussion and it's long overdue. White actors are not given stereotypical labels or roles in porn whereas blacks often are. It reinforces our feelings of having to fight to be treated as equals. Those who say different should think about it a bit more.


Member

28 Posts
6/19
Posted - Jul 1 2019 : 8:13AM
nobody told you about anal quit playing
I could use nacho vidal instead of pierre woodman
does it change the fact that is just a boy girl scene or not
 
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Posted - Jul 1 2019 : 8:43AM
^
It doesn't matter what matters is the value on the market why should be only the producer the one making lots of money but not those who are at the very origin of it?
Furthermore the performers are paid only once the producer publishes the scene several times all of which generating incomes, also it's only the first IR scene one paid more all the others aren't. There's people out there willing to pay for firsts but not for the others, firsts are more valuable , and yet the question a performer can do a first only once in her life , why shouldn't try to earn as much as possible? The producer sure as hell is , also a first stays a first forever , those who never saw a performer before still will look for her first even after years , it won't lose his "first value". So not a single cent should go to the performer?


Edited by - LCF on 7/1/2019 8:45:13 AM


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Posted - Jul 1 2019 : 10:29AM
Regarding 'racist' white/non black performers I think the heat needs to be taken off them somewhat. Many of them are not racist and have had black partners(Jena Jameson). The issue with IR is the performers box that you are put in when you say yes to it for some. The bigger problem is the IR category not the non black women who say no to it. Again just market hypermasculinity and endowedment in a non race way and stop having all black performers be size wielding alpha chads. For the latter find some non black variants and for fucks sake start respecting the black female figure.

Member

28 Posts
6/19
Posted - Jul 1 2019 : 8:33PM
girls should be paid more regardless of the partner colour of skin
cause they put a lot for entertain us
but what you see as a buisness move of getting pay more for 1st IR ou just IR
for me it's perpetuate discrmination , make a difference for the same type of work based only on colour skin etc
a lot of girls who don't do black guys and aren't racist are upset when you call them like that
because the porn industry agents and compagnies who have no morals try to capitalize on these stereotypes and put
girls in unconfortable situation and it gime them bad image
I understand girls like rachel starr who don't do black guys because she say she don't like how most IR porn is represented too much cliché
or Ava addams who was called IR dodger a bunch of times or she's just very picky with male talent
and I rather prefers that kind of choice instead of those who contribute the principle of exclusion based on color

Member

The Atrax
862 Posts
8/15
Posted - Jul 1 2019 : 9:51PM
I don't know about other producers but myself I have always been happy to put black men in my productions since the beginning of my career.
But as I said you can't just said a man is a man. For me we all have our differences and this is what is appreciable in my opinion. For me a black girl is not the same as an asian or white girl, all have their differences and I love it. But it must be accepted if someone don't like it.
Sex is an intimate things and must be out of the discussion about racism. Just my point of view ...

PW

 
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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 1:19AM
Except it's not a factory , it's sex and has a market of its own, for example I would agree that both black and white performers should be paid the same for the same kind of performance, but there isn't a market big enough for black girls , with the exceptoon of some superstar who may actually be paid more than the average white girl, if you are going to pay the same the girls producing a movie entirely dedicated to black girls you're going out of business soon.

Also apparently in the marked nobody seem to give a fuck for a black girl first IR , there's no market for it

You can't apply the rules of any regular working environment , it's a showbiz system here

In many sports black performers are very often paid more than the whites, I don't see anybody asking for salary equality there

Edited by - LCF on 7/2/2019 1:20:52 AM


Member

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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 2:07AM
Anyway to add my two cents, American porn is very much more racialized and tons of more racist scenarios or scenes, hence why I prefer European porn. The IR scene is basically still profiting off the taboo of interracial sex, especially the "savage black man" ravaging a white women and I don't see how people cannot see that. If it wasn't why isn't every scene with an asian girl and white man interracial or black women/white man. It's popular because it's taboo. Now is a girl racist if she doesn't do IR? Everyone should have a choice who they have sex with, maybe she is leaving it off to use later on in her career to revitalize it. Some girls might be racist and not want to do it because of that, but no one can read minds and tell you the answer.

An example of racist America porn is something like this


Like come on, you might say that she consented and all, but it's so degrading and racially charged, if I was asian, I would be put off. Like imagine a porn where you throw bananas at an african girl or talk about how black people are stupid.


Member

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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 4:29AM
In sports and in entertainment world they judge you on your on court performance not your skin tone
Aaron rodgers get paid more cause he's one of the best
LeBron James get paid more cause he's one of the best
that's the first criteria when they get their contract

Member

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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 4:33AM
you sum up the situation nicely

Member

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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 4:52AM
^^ I believe what he was alluding to was the ability to ask for more - in this case for a product that will sell better vs skills that result in better performance.

Jesse Jane, regardless of the ratings discussion, will bring new money to Blacked with her recent scene, thus an increase in income for Greggo. That in mind, because she only gets paid once, she's in a position to ask for more to do the scene because of the increased revenue it will bring up front with subs as well as with DVD sales and any other way it's marketed. In the world of sports, when a performer becomes a draw for the team they will be in a position to be compensated more than before, granted it's a salary not one-time paycheck, but when Lebron James is putting asses in seats he WILL be paid more than if attendance and advertising revenue remained at previous levels.

Folks get tunnel vision with the belief that women ask for more to shoot a 'first IR' only because the costar is black but won't acknowledge that increased profit to the people writing the check is another possible reason why they could/should be asking for more.

 
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^Lucy Pinder
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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 5:36AM
If you shoot for Vixen you'll make the company more money than if you shoot for Lethal Hardcore. Because every Vixen scene sells more than every Lethal Hardcore scene. But for the same b/g scene with the same sex acts, the girls ask for the same money from both companies.

Stop making this be about something it isn't about.


Member

28 Posts
6/19
Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 5:37AM
there's no belief just a fact
these " IR " scenes do benefits to the Jesse Jane and other
they will get new exposure
they can renegociate their paycheks
they can get new fans
people will show interest
people will talk about it
it's not just a one scene one time paycheck
it's a process for much more
 
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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 7:17AM
As far as I know the ones getting paid more for their firsts are the white girls and they are paid out of their performance value some of them are the best that are there , no one is paying anything more to a mediocre porn starlet, I don't think they are judged by the skin tone.

That's really funny, you are asking those performers to keep their rate low even knowing their scene has a major market value , everybody is getting more money except the girls why is that? might be even called sexism


Member

28 Posts
6/19
Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 7:27AM
Nobody say they should lower their rates
We just say this discrimination is bullshit

Member

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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 7:50AM
How is it discrimination to pay someone a higher wage for bringing more money into the comany?

Edited by - upsux on 7/2/2019 7:51:14 AM


Member

28 Posts
6/19
Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 7:56AM
Some people right here prefers deny there's racism in porn by claiming it's just business ok so L.O.L

Member

321 Posts
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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 8:07AM
My friend, nobody is denying it exists, but some people here think it's not as cut and dry as racism being the only reason people make decisions.
 
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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 9:09AM
You know Jules Jordan not only pays more the girls for an IR scene he also stated on this very board he pays more the male talents too plus whether the girls are paid more only for their first IR, those black guys performing IR are paid more always not just once.

I don't see anybody asking anything to them such as they shouldn't discriminate and maintain their usual wage or IR is just BG sex , why are you charging more for it?

for the very same reason the girls ask more , that scene will generate more money and they both get paid more because of this.

again why the girl is the only one who shouldn't be paid accordingly, why nobody says nothing about the males?


Member

28 Posts
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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 10:50AM
LCF wrote:
That's because guys would stick their dick in a wet coconut if you put a wig on it. <---slight sarcasm

O.k. I have to admit that some of my criticisms that I posted earlier may have been a bit harsh and hypocritical. I put some thought into it and for one, I am glad that Jesse Jane in her IR debut after a hiatus has been getting a lot of positive vibes. I have to admit, that's pretty cool and I wish her continued success.

So, I was thinking which performers I love to watch perform who waited to do IR and the two main ones for me that stands out are Lily Love(not the one from Mexico who for whatever reason chose the same name) and Lena Anderson. edit: I still support them. Love them. What's funny is that a few years ago I didn't give a rats ass about whether a star did IR or not, and I think the reason I pay more attention to it now is one: you get a look into the minds (good or bad) of porn stars due to social media and two, the politically charged atmosphere in the U.S. made me aware of things I never paid attention to before, but for obvious reasons I wont get into that.

So yeah, we're all here for the porn and we pay for what we like and variety is the spice of life. Cheers all.


Edited by - boxlicker69 on 7/2/2019 10:53:55 AM

 
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^Lucy Pinder
18734 Posts
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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 12:58PM
Then be consistent. Pay them more for all scenes that make more. Not just IR.

A stepdaughter scene might make more than a regular gonzo scene in today's market. There is no stepdaughter rate.

A scene where a girl is wearing a sexier outfit might draw more than one where she's not wearing something as sexy. There is no sexy outfit rate.

Swallowing scenes and/or facial scenes might earn more than when the girl takes a cumshot on her stomach. There are not swallowing or facial rates.

But there is an IR rate.

There is value to the conversation that porn stars should be paid more based on how much money they'll earn for the company. Profit-sharing of some sort. The details would have to be worked out of course. But this is not that conversation. You guys are trying to smoke-and-mirror this thing into something it's not.

 
All-Star Member

Non Prevalebunt!
12338 Posts
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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 1:59PM
^
It has been said time and again that most performers ask more for their first IR , and charge their usual wage for those coming after that one

I'm not sure the step-daugter is actually generating more than for example a step-brother a step-mother, a step-sister , a baby-sitter or a friend's mother , BFF Father and so on there are too many stuff falling into that category it's not really a different category
there are category with higher wages such as anal, DP , gang bangs but those are paid more for every scene not just the first one there's not an actual comparison
besides fucking a black man is not an "extreme" act

 
All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18734 Posts
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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 2:40PM
This is not true for the most part. Spiegler is the only agency that typically has his girls charging the same for IR as for scenes with white guys. Other agencies generally add $100 for IR.

This is starting to change. But it's still true the majority of girls.

 
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Non Prevalebunt!
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Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 3:19PM
^
Riley Reid charged more for her first , it was with Mandingo , she worked with him 3 times more but with her regular rates, but then again she's a Spiegler Girl

Member

321 Posts
10/17
Posted - Jul 2 2019 : 8:38PM
My smoke and mirrors is asking someone to admit that there might be another reason? It cannot be racism every single time because it's on the record that some women wait for entirely different reasons - there's no refuting that, it's in their own words, and in the most obvious example it's because she didn't like the raceplay element. It doesn't get anymore 'not racist against blacks' than that! Further, if a performer wanted to ask for more money the first time she shot a stepdaughter scene why shouldn't she be allowed to? Is she suddenly an ageist because she wants to charge more for her first older guy scenario? The argument makes no sense when you pigeonhole the motives for someone and ignorantly pretend it's the only right answer.

If a performer, of any race or gender, has the leverage to ask for a higher than normal rate for a 'first' then they should do it every. single. time.

We're at the point where I'm holding up a gallon of 2% and a gallon of skim and you're standing there shaking your head saying there's only 2%.

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