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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 9:51AM
The "system" was designed to give slave states more representation in Congress, and a larger voice in choosing the president and vice-president.
 
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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 11:11AM
Oh, yeah, shit, and I saw that, but I was thinking I saw it somewhere else...or something. It was late last night.
 
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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 11:24AM
#1: What Pieps said
#2: It's good to have for the history books*
#3: It makes me feel better.
#4: It's cheaper and less destructive than bourbon.
* - Before they're all burned, at least.
 
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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 12:54PM
[link inactive:404 - Page not found]Just when the Trump team thought they'd gotten someone a little higher profile than Lee Greenwood to perform at his inauguration, Andrea Bocelli is backing out.
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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 1:08PM
Maybe Chachi can sing.

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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 1:17PM
Hey, it's Trump. Shouldn't the inauguration look more like this?
trump escalator.jpg
vegas.jpg
scott_baio_gop_convention_h_2016.jpg
trump universe.jpg
A_Fan
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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 1:20PM
Well, I think we have to get used to him taking anything and making it 10 hex better than reality. If some company keeps 100 jobs in the USA he will boast he saved 1000. This is one of the funny things about Trump that I find amusing more than anything.
the unknown pervert
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C0EFoIlWEAAH8Ni.jpg
 
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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 3:08PM
^ Seriously, man, you've got to layoff licking toads for awhile.

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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 3:09PM
^^That's a map of where all the people are.

Edited by - Pieps on 12/20/2016 3:09:35 PM

 
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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 3:23PM
Making good on my promise, I haven't watched NBC and MSNBC "news" programming in over a week now.
The 2016 Elections Thread
 
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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 3:25PM
And, also completely non-responsive to my post he quoted [o\|]
 
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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 5:48PM
It's been six weeks now - when will someone actually begin celebrating Trump and America becoming great again?
At the moment this thread is only a one way street, in that pretty much exclusively liberal analysis and commentary are being presented and then being mercilessly debunked because proving losers wrong is easy.
Another way of mercilessly debunking losers is showing how your guy, the winner, is great. I would welcome the opportunity to read some thoughtful conservative analysis of what Trump is likely to do and how this is going to benefit the people who voted for him.

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Posted - Dec 20 2016 : 6:09PM
Then you'll have to find some thoughtful conservatives.
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 12:35AM
Well in all fairness, he's not actually president yet, so they have to cool their jets.
Since all we have at this time is his prior record which consists of tons of ego-self feeding, his history of graft, bankruptcies and tax-dodging, his abject willingness to fan the flames of xenophobia, racism and anti-Semitism regardless of who is harmed by it, his absolute ignorance of domestic or foreign policy, (collusion with the Russian government to interfere in the election notwithstanding) and the big, fat "FOR SALE" sign that will placed on top of the White House on Jan 21st, it is quite understandable why, thus far, it is a one way street.
Trump fans here certainly enjoy the victory in and of itself -- and no doubt they have every right to -- but they'd rather not comment on the laundry list of, um, unsavory aspects of the man and wait until they get something actually GOOD that can be said about him.
I'm sure it won't take long.
 
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 12:55AM
And, as I have mentioned before, 64% of the economic activity in the country.
 
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 2:34AM
In the earliest parts of human history, people migrated to places where mainly two things were abundant: water, game and arable land.
Today the basics haven't changed -- we're still going to where the jobs are. And largely the jobs are in the cities, and the big counties. As I talked about here, the cities' strength often comes at a cost to small-town America.
At the age of 18, many people leave the small towns. Whether they're going to college, entering the military, or coming to LA to enter the porn industry, there's always been a certain migration to urban centers in search of opportunity, financial success, etc. And let's be honest; many of those who left share in common -- a certain sense of adventure and bravery. A willingness to take chances and uproot oneself. So the biggest cities and counties are filled with people who traveled a long way. As more people come in, more creature comforts follow. More movie theatres. More Starbucks. More nightclubs.
So this is the root of the divide. What happens to those communities left behind? Filled with people who are under 18 and over sixty? Well, combined with the loss of manufacturing jobs, they've suffered. Since nothing came to replace those manufacturing jobs, there was a void. Tattoo parlors. Strip clubs. Automotive shops. Wal-Marts. Those who stay are hardy and possess a great sense of sentimentality that overrides any thoughts of leaving. Many are able to make it in the basic local economy that remains -- but others can't. Trump promises to fill that void and , basically reward those who were resilient and showed fidelity to their small towns.
So his thing wasn't really "Make America Great Again" it was more "Make Small Town America More Viable"

 
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 3:08AM
Well it's all over but the shouting. (Well hell, that means it'll NEVER really be over, don't it?)
The Electoral College has done it's duty, and DJT has the requisite votes needed and in 30 days will start protecting and defending the Constitution like a mofo!
Hillary Clinton: 65,844,610 votes, 48.2 percent of the vote.
Donald Trump: 62,979,636 votes, 46.1 percent of the vote.
Other candidates took 7,804,213 ballots, or about 5.7 percent of the popular vote.

Clinton's margin of victory is the largest ever for a candidate who lost the electoral vote.


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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 11:21AM
Smiler wrote:
What they have in common is they are breathing and capable of basic motility.
I live in rural America. The average age here is 55. The average age a few hours away in Eugene is 33. An hour from Eugene, in Florence, it's 57.
You have to drive over an hour from here to find fancy things like a strip club or a Walmart.
They don't have the first and last months rent and a deposit. They stay here where they own a house their dad owned, which would take over a year to sell for a fraction of what a house would cost in a city. The young have an easier time leaving, because they have no assets here, and they can flop somewhere with roommates, they have a much-much-much easier time landing a cashier job at Trader Joe's, and they are hardier and can survive making some poor choices.
Some of them raise chickens in their yard, feeding them scraps thrown away behind the grocery store, and forage wood on public land to keep their homes warm. They take odd jobs, they scrape by. Ideas on pinterest about selling designer jewelry to your friends at parties are worthless here. Ideas about starting a lawn care business--hahahahah!
It's not going to happen. A town like this sucks dry any government grants they can get, far in excess of the taxes the people here could pay. The overhaul of the aging water system would cost many thousands of dollars per resident, which the residents don't have. The water system leaks, un-metered, over half of what they process at the water plant. This town is only still here because of federal money from various programs, and is a net leach. Yet we still have people who don't understand that in the tiniest way. They stand up at public meetings and talk about how they are tired of being bled dry by taxes.
We are the beneficiary of successful areas, blue states and blue cities. Without it, this becomes another ghost town. But the cost of making this town and others like it thrive would be prohibitive. It's welfare. And it's not going to happen.
Edited by - Pieps on 12/21/2016 11:24:05 AM
 
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 1:24PM
The only way for Trump to revitalize small-town America is to get producers to locate in small-town America. If there was a good business reason for them to do that then they would have done so already. So, does The Donald intend to tax us all in order to provide businesses an incentive?
Yes, Walmart opened stores across small-town America, but that was no net gain for those towns. Walmart takes the vast majority of the money it collects in small towns and gives it to its shareholders. It won't be building a new home, buying a new car or sending its kids to school in your small town. It won't spend one dime in your town unless it absolutely has to. In fact, Walmart locates its stores right outside the city limits of small towns so it doesn't have to pay local property taxes. That's how dedicated Walmart is to helping small-town America.
 
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 1:30PM
^You are of course, correct and logical.
But the sentimentality aspect I discussed defies logic and facts. Trump himself is a black hole of logic.
 
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 2:08PM
Speaking for the "liberal" contingent, we haven't been "mercilessly debunked" here at all.
Sure, there has been plenty of factually incorrect alt-right nonsense presented as "rebuttal," but even you know better than that.
And, for the record, most of what you dismiss as "liberal" is, more often than not, simply setting the factual record correct.
Facts are neither "liberal" or "conservative," and that's what is at stake now.
Yes, I realize that "facts" no longer matter in the Trumpian alternate universe -- but some of us are stubbornly intent on pursuing our 1st Amendment remedies.
Enjoy the collapse of Western Civilization * while you can
* Western Civilization means precisely that. It is not an euphemism for "Trump" or the "United States," and most certainly concerns itself with far more than our little pile of shit here in the United States.
 
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 5:39PM
It should also be noted that Nietzsche has started quite a number of pro-Trump threads.
 
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 6:04PM

Normally I strive to be enigmatic and consider other's misinterpretation an achievement. Pathetic really.
Edited by - Sexy Sadie on 12/21/2016 6:04:43 PM
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 6:28PM
Intentionally Deleted: Giving Sexy Sadie a dispensation
Edited by - Goldstein on 12/22/2016 8:28:03 AM
 
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 6:43PM
^ I was actually commenting on my own 'pathetic' motivations.
 
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 11:25PM
OK, I misunderstood too. It was kind of a valid comment though. It probably does seem like there's a gang beating of Trump in this thread and the other.
But there's just so much to beat him up on.

 
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 11:35PM
I understand that you're angry, but you may want to back off a bit. When you stop reading for tone and start snapping at people, you're losing perspective.

Edited by - bob on 12/22/2016 10:13:47 PM

 
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Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 11:53PM
^^ It's more the absence of pro-Trump statements from the anti-anti-Trump crowd that I find intriguing. While you, Pieps, Goldstein and Hardware positively contribute to the debate with your posts, it's the bitterness and negativity of the rebuttals that is laughable. It doesn't even qualify as schadenfreude, since these people aren't even enjoying the misfortune of others.
Aside from the Carrier snow-job (and is President Donald going to micro-manage every potential factory closure/relocation?) is there anything to suggest that his non-1% supporters are going to benefit in any real way by having voted him in? And, no, 'getting tough with China' doesn't count.
Edited by - Sexy Sadie on 12/21/2016 11:54:18 PM
 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 1:31AM
Well that goes back to how we've detailed that Trump -- not even yet taking office -- is already back tracking on nearly every single thing his most ardent supporters wanted. They wanted a revolution, and they're getting Dubya On Steroids. (Oh, irony of ironies; it turns out they might as well have nominated Jeb after all!)
His more mainstream supporters, who walked that tightrope of wanting him to win, yet distance themselves from the crazy don't have much to cheer about. They got the win -- but they basically had to flush their conservative principles down the toilet to do it. They'll get their Supreme Court justice, they'll get some business friendly regulation -- but they're also stuck with the OH MY GOD WHAT IS HE GOING TO DO TODAY?-every day when they wake up. This would not have happened with Scott Walker or Ted Cruz.
I said this before and after the election; after it became clear that Trump was going to be the nominee, many establishment Republicans WANTED a Hillary win. Hillary was manageable; The Clintons are a known quantity; Hillary gave them someone to fight against; they hoped that after four years she'd be a failure and they'd be able to corral the Trumpkins back into reality and they'd get Ted Cruz or someone else into the White House with a landslide. Now? The future is uncertain. They've got an intensely disliked, ethics-challenged candidate who is basically an adult Eric Cartman.
To couch it in sports terms,
There will be some factory jobs saved. He'll replicate the Carrier-thing in a few other places,
But the thing is, these saved jobs will come only in exchange for tax breaks which will further crimp the budgets of the states they're in. So basically he'll be giving to the working class with one hand, and taking away from them with the other.
And as we've also talked about in the "future without jobs" thread, he can't do much about jobs being lost to automation. Look for some sleight of hand there too, as he will make announcements about certain factories "staying in America" but what he won't say is that they'll still be losing jobs due to robots taking over.
In addition, he and the GOP will find themselves in Gordian Knots over what to do with Obamacare, Medicare and Social Security. Now that they control everything there's no more excuses. They're going to have to balance the wants of the Southern Tea Partiers, the defense industry, the Evangelicals, and the
 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 1:55AM
Let me add this:
This was THE most intensely personal elections that I've ever witnessed up close in my adult life. (If someone has another example, please, feel free to share)
There are several factors in Hillary's loss, some external, some self-inflicted. But at the end of the day, she failed the Likeability Test. (Myself, I wasn't being asked to marry her, so Likeability meant jack shit to me.) So, Liberals, Progressives and African-Americans in the crucial states bailed on her, big time.
But for Republicans this still has repercussions because, while a few Democrats flipped, there's still all those "Anti-Hillary-But-If-Barack-Was-Running-For-A-Third-Term-We'd-Vote-For-Him-In-A-Minute" voters out there in the Rust Belt, and there's still that Latino contingent out there, and there's those millions who didn't vote at all.
Trump got 46% of the vote and lost the popular vote by the largest margin in history. 88,000 votes in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan would have made all the difference in, literally, the world.
2018 and 2020 are now ticking time bombs for the Republicans. Like I said, in the eyes of their voters, they've got no excuses right now.

Edited by - Smiler Grogan on 12/22/2016 1:57:00 AM

 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 1:57AM
Cool, Bob.
Nevertheless, I get Goldstein's anger and I would be too. Good on him. I'm way too philosophical about the sh*t that's gone down this year.

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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 2:48AM
Sexy Sadie wrote:
I didn't have anything positive to say about Trump before he got involved in politics. Without any partisanship, I thought he was a doofus clown. Now that he's a dangerous world leader, I'm not going to feel obligated to think up good things to say about him. There have been a lot of world leaders that nobody has anything good to say about.
And you're right, it's not schadenfreude. Trump voters are going to reap the whirlwind.
Which reminds me of this bit from the Maureen Dowd article I linked to on page 54 of the Drain the Swamp thread:
 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 8:26AM
duplicate post please delete
Edited by - Goldstein on 12/22/2016 8:30:07 AM
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 9:25AM
Kind of hard to do when there is, at most, one person who knows what Trump is likely to do. That is Trump and it is not written in stone that he knows what he is likely to do.
No one else is going to know until at least January 21, 2017 how in the hell this is going to work out. For all we know his first action may be an executive order eliminating the letter F from the alphabet. You can't second guess the coach until after the game begins.
Edited by - the unknown pervert on 12/22/2016 9:28:59 AM
the unknown pervert
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 9:47AM
If liberals and Democrats act like you do for the next four years you will be in for another crude surprise next election. A lot of your "facts" are actually your beliefs and the proportion of liberal to conservative posters on this section of the site is much, much, much, much, much, higher than the proportion of liberals to conservatives in the actual electorate. You are basically doubling down on the same attitude the left has had in this election cycle. "I am so much smarter than anyone else. I know so much more than anyone else. Why won't all you intellectual inferiors listen to me?" It's hard to imagine a more ineffectual strategy of persuasion. The only response you are going to get from anyone with a differing viewpoint is the following.

Edited by - Janitor on 12/26/2016 1:26:01 PM

 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 10:42AM
Who support Trump. By defintion a non-existent species.

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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 11:37AM
I don't care much about persuasion. The horse is already out of the barn.
I'm just going on the record. When they want to know what we did to stop it, I can't say I did much, but I'll still be on the record.
 
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pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 11:41AM
As a non-American you learn to view American politics with irony and schadenfreude or you end up taking it too seriously.

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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 12:05PM
TUP wrote:
We don't know what he's likely to do as far as policy.
He's going to build a wall. Maybe not a literal wall. Maybe that was a 'euphenism.'
He's going to lock her up. Not so much. Before the election, you were "nasty and mean and vicious." But "now you're laid back, you're cool, you're mellow."
He was going to drain the swamp, but now he's surrounded by Goldman alumni, and he's somehow lost his appetite for that.
Repeal and replace... well... he's come to appreciate some of the finer points of obamacare. So who knows.
So, for policy, we don't know what he's likely to do.
But for behavior, we DO know exactly what to expect.
Quite predictably, he will be erratic, dramatic, and unpredictable. He will look like he is leaning one way, he will signal it, and then he will announce some other thing instead.
He will tweet dramatic things to draw attention to petty disagreements, while meeting behind closed doors with billionaires.
One word: cronyism.
Don't forget nepotism.
Plutocracy.
He will pat himself on the back publicly, pretty much every day, for his genius.
He will defer policy matters to the Washington insiders who wish to dismantle the safety net.
He will intentionally offend China, anger Palestinians, etc.
Etc. I think we actually do have a pretty good idea what to expect.

 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 12:49PM
^
I'm confident Trump will nominate judges (Supreme Court included) that will be more conservative than those Clinton would have nominated.
Trump will attempt to lessen the flow of illegal aliens into the country.
You can add those items to the list.

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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 1:00PM
Trump just tweeted:
Yeah, we need to greatly strengthen and expand our nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes.
See if this makes sense to you:
"The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes."
Yeah. I wonder where it ranks on the list of priorities versus the conservative judges and the possible attempt to stem the flow of undocumented workers.
 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 2:51PM
My guess is that he's trying to push China into reining in North Korea. Since Kim Jong-un is doing exactly what China wants him to do - distract the Americans - I don't know that he'll succeed.
 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 2:54PM
You're such an amusing guy. Of course pinning you down to get a serious answer is a fool's errand because you're such a prankster. And, yeah, if Mrs Clinton had won you wouldn't be second guessing her either because you're such a consistently funny guy.
I'm just laughing so much now. Do I need an emoticon?
 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 3:40PM
How is that going to benefit the people who voted for him?
Are those illegal aliens taking all the jobs away from the Rust Belt housewives? Are those illegal aliens dumbing down the education system? Are those illegal aliens hoovering up all the oxytocin?
Will a conservative majority in the SC improve pay rates for auto workers in Alabama? Will a conservative majority in the SC increase demand for american-made manufactured goods?
The question wasn't just asking what is Trump likely to do, but also...
How will it actually help the people who voted for him?
He wouldn't have won if only 1% had voted for him.
Edited by - Sexy Sadie on 12/22/2016 3:41:51 PM

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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 7:27PM
Simply can't wait for the forthcoming nuclear war.
 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 8:24PM
The problem is that you do not know facts from opinion.
I, on the other hand, meticulously document assertions of "facts," often with URL links (like when I debunk nonsense you post from the alt-right universe).
I'm not "doubling down" on anything, but, yeah, I think I'm "smarter" and know "more" than many people that post here and on the Internet. Like you, for example.
You are very misguided if you believe that "liberals and Democrats" are trying to "persuade" you -- or any of the alt-right whackjobs and/or angry Trump voters -- of anything.
We've got a country to save.
And, last time I checked, Secretary Clinton got 2.9 million more votes in the 2016 Election than president-elect Trump did.
That's called a majority of the electorate.
So what if a across three states (Wisconsin, 27,257; Michigan, 11,162; and Pennsylvania, 68,236), gave Trump the Electoral Collage victory
This election's popular vote vs. electoral vote disconnect may finally be the last straw for most people, which, I suspect, will lead to reform of our presidential "electoral" system.
Besides, gerrymandering, voter disenfranchisement, angry White working-class voters and an aging and dying-off older White population are only going to carry "your side" for so much longer
BTW, the Internet, AM hate radio and social media have a "proportion of" conservative to liberal posters "much, much, much, much, much, higher than the proportion of" conservatives to liberals "in the actual electorate."
So, I guess we can consider the ADT World News & Nonsense threads a bastion of moderated sanity.
 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 8:26PM
^Planet Earth had a good run.
 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 10:21PM
Call me old-fashioned, but I hate this term. It's new-speak. They really are illegal aliens. Their legal status doesn't address the policy questions, but I hate when the fashionable rhetoric obfuscates the truth.
I love you anyway, Pieps.
 
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Posted - Dec 22 2016 : 11:14PM
I get where you're coming from, but I believe that using 'undocumented workers' highlights the hypocrisy of politicians and others who rant against these illegal immigrants at the same time they exploit said immigrants for their cheap labor.
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