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All smartbuydisc.rus > World News Nonsense > The 2016 Elections Thread > The 2016 Elections Thread (page 78)
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Posted - Dec 25 2016 : 2:32AM
Yeah, I know right? I mean, "fuck you" has pretty much been the Right's response to everything deemed "liberal" since the Reagan Administration.
I will say this -- it's time for liberals to start saying "fuck you" back. And we can start with the end of trying to be Captain Health Care. If they kill Obamacare, let it stay dead. No more high minded health programs. Perhaps Mitt Romney had a point when running in 2012 -- perhaps the goal all along should have been health care programs at a state level. Perhaps even just at a city/county level.
Twice now, our presidents have put national health care programs at the front of the agenda and twice they've been rewarded with Republican dominated Houses immediately afterwards. Enough. Sure people will die, and stay mired in poverty, but if that's what Red State America wants, who are we to force it on them??
Edited by - Smiler Grogan on 12/25/2016 3:44:37 AM
 
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Posted - Dec 25 2016 : 11:33AM
Thank you. My argument is not that those constructs are invalid or illegitimate, though. My argument is that when we restrict the discussion to those constructs we risk disregarding a complex, and politically motivated, situation in favor of putting the onus on the illegal immigrant. In other words, on the person who has no power.
I would further argue that the terms you object to are purposefully used because those using them are well aware of the fact that the politicians want it both ways - they want to be 'tough on illegal immigration' at the same time they want to be friendly to the needs of American companies that use illegal immigrants (at least, so long as the campaign contributions keep rolling in).
Okay, that's enough cynicism for today. So, Happy Holidays.
 
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Posted - Dec 25 2016 : 3:45PM
Same to you!

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Posted - Dec 25 2016 : 11:59PM
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Posted - Dec 26 2016 : 1:41AM
Note to Prebus - Jesus was a Jew, acting in the Jewish tradition. He was a holy man in a land full of holy men. Okay, maybe 'full' is overdoing it, but he certainly wasn't the only one going around working miracles.
Granted, it has been a while since I read the Bible, but I don't recall Jesus ever claiming to be a king, either. I see that the King James bible has his response to being asked if he claimed to be King of the Jews as, 'You have said so', which isn't the same thing. That's telling those in power that what he thinks doesn't really matter to them. They've already made up their minds, and now they're just going through the motions.
Furthermore, I doubt that he promised salvation to all mankind, since that would include the Romans he was bent on ridding Israel of. As a Jewish prophet acting in the tradition of Jewish prophets, his concern was for the Jewish people and the Jewish homeland. Had it been otherwise we wouldn't have the apostles arguing over whether followers of Jesus had to become Jews, to be circumcised, etc.
Ergo, I think Priebus is full of it. I don't think he's trying to equate Trump with Jesus, though. He's just sucking up to the evangelicals.

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Posted - Dec 26 2016 : 2:40AM
Awk-ward!
 
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Posted - Dec 26 2016 : 3:03PM
Speaking of Jesus, according to a program I watched on PBS, archeologists have discovered that Bethlehem was right next to a large port city. So, his upbringing was probably a lot more cosmopolitan than one would think just from reading the Bible.

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Posted - Dec 26 2016 : 6:03PM
Jerry Falwell Jr. says the Trump cabinet is
 
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Posted - Dec 26 2016 : 6:14PM
The gospels have several sections that suggest Jesus was concerned with more than just his fellow Jews and was subverting the expectations of an exclusively Jewish messiah concerned with liberating the homeland (the parable of the good Samartian being the best known).
Of course those gospels were written decades later and most likely the writers were changing his message for a contemporary, gentile audience but even among the Jewish prophets there is a stream that includes a morality that includes more than Jews. Jesus' sayings reference these passages overtly.
Regardless, did Prebius actually intend to compare Trump and Jesus? Seems very unlikely but how else to read that sentence.
Edited by - BlackSix on 12/26/2016 6:31:16 PM

Senior Member

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Posted - Dec 26 2016 : 6:22PM
Funny how TUP says we can't predict what Trump is going to do but guys like Jerry Falwell Jr. seem pretty confident they know.
 
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Posted - Dec 26 2016 : 6:30PM
Funny because if you check the Drain the Swamp thread I'd say the predictions that Trump was going to sell his middle class and working class supporters out has already started to be fulfilled.
 
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Posted - Dec 26 2016 : 6:33PM
I doubt Trump even knows what he will ultimately do.
 
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Posted - Dec 26 2016 : 7:15PM
^ but that doesn't explain the fact that he still does things. Are you saying the Billionaire Cabinet just sort of happened?
Are you going to be constantly surprised by what he does? I'm not.

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Posted - Dec 26 2016 : 7:15PM
Actually, I'm 100% certain that he will institute things that benefit the rich, particularly tax dollars awarded to them in the form of tax cuts.
The Republicans refer to that as "job creation."
Then they will make up for the tax cuts by taking security and services from the middle class. They have been itching to get their hands on Medicare and Social Security, for instance.
So, 100% certain--money for the rich. Take it away from the middle class. Call it a jobs program.
The unofficial Republican motto: The rich don't have enough money, and the poor have too many nice things.
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Posted - Dec 26 2016 : 7:16PM
D'oh!
Edited by - Pieps on 12/26/2016 7:17:37 PM
 
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"You have sacrificed nothing and no one."
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Posted - Dec 26 2016 : 9:55PM

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Posted - Dec 27 2016 : 1:25AM
^^^ "The unofficial Republican motto: The rich don't have enough money, and the poor have too many nice things."
Sorry to take this off topic. During the GFC it amazed me that there was hardly any comment made on the "bonuses" that company executive's were receiving. Why does someone receiving a multi-million dollar salary need a "bonus" as an incentive to do their job? And how much of a role did this "bonus" culture have in actually creating the GFC?

Edited by - Simple Simon on 12/27/2016 1:26:13 AM

 
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Posted - Dec 27 2016 : 1:49AM
Um, what's the GFC??
 
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Posted - Dec 27 2016 : 1:56AM
Global Freakin' Crisis or something like that....
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Posted - Dec 27 2016 : 1:58AM
Who knows, maybe Jeff Sessions has Patrick Ewing like post moves. Maybe Nikki Haley has Larry Bird range from the three point line and maybe Rick Perry can make John Stockton like no look passes.
Then again this is the same Jerry Falwell Jr. that just hired the former Baylor athletic director(who was in charge of Baylor athletics during the time period of the Art Briles coached football team's rapeathon) to be athletic director at Liberty.

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Posted - Dec 27 2016 : 2:03AM
^^^ Sorry. Global Financial Crisis. The sub-prime lending that caused economies around the world to crash
 
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Posted - Dec 27 2016 : 2:25AM
Oh, OK. Well yes, there were several mentions and articles (especially in Vanity Fair) of the outrageousness of the taxpayer funded bonus-packages of people like Jamie Dimon.
But these guys are the closest thing we have to a legal Mafioso in this country. That's basically the only way I can explain why Enron and Bernie Madoff became household names and Dimon, Lloyd Blankenfield, Richard D. Fairbank, and John A. Thain did not.

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Posted - Dec 27 2016 : 3:22AM
^ From what I remember, it was more that those executives still received those bonuses when their companies were on the brink of collapse. And then, as you say, used government bailout funds to pay those bonuses.
I don't remember much comment on why someone on a ten million dollar salary needs a cash bonus, or millions of dollars of stock/options
which they can cash as soon as they leave. The latter being a clear incentive to do anything to raise the stock price with no concern for ramifications once they leave.
 
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Posted - Dec 27 2016 : 3:27AM
^Because capitalism.
(sorry, not trying to be flip. That's honestly the best I can come up with. Someone else may be able to explain better!)
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Posted - Dec 27 2016 : 4:26AM
^ Oh, so if you question it, you're a communist.
It's okay, Pieps actually explained it: the rich don't have enough money, so need an incentive to work harder.
 
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Posted - Dec 27 2016 : 9:39AM
There are two reasons. First, the large salaries reflect the fact that there are more companies that want very talented financial 'wizards' than there are very talented financial wizards - supply and demand. The bonus thing can be viewed as a hedge against down markets, or as a further incentive to perform (because greed is good).
 
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Posted - Dec 27 2016 : 12:33PM
I'm not convinced that is the case. Yes, we can look at the good Samaritan parable as Jesus suggesting what you do is more important than what religion you claim to follow, but we can also look at it as Jesus saying that being born a Jew doesn't make you better than a non-believer, your adherence to Biblical teachings makes you better.
At the same time, as I pointed out in my previous, Jesus was probably a lot more cosmopolitan than he's been given credit for, so you may be right.
[typo]
Edited by - hardware on 12/27/2016 11:49:17 PM
 
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Woman of the Decade
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Posted - Dec 27 2016 : 1:01PM
Two articles that go beyond just Comey and Wikileaks:

[link inactive:404 - Page not found]As Obama Prospered, His Party Floundered

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Posted - Dec 28 2016 : 1:29AM
dttweet.png
Thanks Donald! Can you believe this nut? And yes, this is a
 
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Posted - Dec 28 2016 : 1:30AM
^And just think...he's not even actually president yet.
It's like that one Hillary ad said "It's like Donald Trump has just invaded our lives"

fubar

7535 Posts
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Posted - Dec 28 2016 : 12:00PM
The metropolises are economic parasites. The vast populations of office workers, IT specialists, policy writers, economists, etc., do nothing for making useful products or growing food. Their incomes are counted as part of the economy but not what they take from the economy. The swollen metropolitan populations are dependent on temporary conditions. Their vast numbers of votes can't and won't change the expiration dates of megacity and suburban life. The electoral college and senate votes of 2 per state provide some balance for the remaining period that the US federal government still exists.
 
Golden Age Classic

13495 Posts
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Posted - Dec 28 2016 : 1:04PM
^Genius since they buy most of the food. Obviously parasites. Remove them from the customer base of the farmer and the farmer now can't afford to buy anything. Damn parasites. But, since the farmer requires their money to pay for things, that then makes the farmer the parasite of the parasite.

fubar

7535 Posts
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Posted - Dec 28 2016 : 1:33PM
^The massive overproduction of food with monocropped megafarming is one of those temporary conditions. It burns oil, destroys soil fertility, and depletes groundwater. Any one of those would be enough to end the practice, so all 3 guarantee it will end soon. Then we'll see how much food is really worth, and how much all those other occupations aren't.
 
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Posted - Dec 28 2016 : 2:07PM
Thankfully, when the apocalypse does come, Batman will be there to fight off the zombie hordes:
Batman will save us.jpeg
 
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Posted - Dec 28 2016 : 2:21PM
There really is a thing, a state of mind, among SOME conservatives and SOME libertarians in this country that actually parallels that.
The germ started with the notion (in the 50s and 60s) that communism was going to take over the US any day; and the best way to stop it was buy limiting government control of our personal lives.
So then that expanded into the whole Government: Evil; Free Enterprise:Righteous argument. That then expanded into the idea, that any action taking against corporations, the wealthy, etc., is an automatic endorsement of communism.
Yes, it defies logic, but that's America for you. Logic, Rationality, and Critical Thinking stand about as much of chance in this nation as a turtle trying to get across Interstate 95 does.
 
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Posted - Dec 28 2016 : 2:23PM
True, but...
1. We're post-truth now;
2. The environmental factors you identify are merely risks to be managed;
3. The only consequence worth jack to agribusiness is whether shareholder returns are being maximized - the production of food is just a collateral outcome.
 
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Posted - Dec 28 2016 : 3:05PM
I think you'll find that Republicans started down that road farther back than that. Look at FDR's presidency, particularly the Republican response to all those government programs he set up in order to put people to work.

fubar

7535 Posts
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Posted - Dec 28 2016 : 8:46PM
I could have been clearer in previous posts. When I say something will end soon, I usually mean that ending is already in progress and will take years. That counts as soon, since preventing such an end would take more years that have already passed. Sudden global changes are much rarer than the predictions of imminent doom.

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Gone for a walk.
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Posted - Dec 28 2016 : 10:19PM
So sad to see that because you have a child's level of understanding about the way most occupations work and the value they provide to society, that everything that anyone does outside of making "useful products" (whatever the hell that means) or growing food are somehow not useful and not worth a damn. I've met people who think like this. I'm even related to a few. One thing all of these people have in common is that their ignorance and lack of a decent education have kept them in the slow-lane in life. Rather than try to earn more money by working harder, or being innovative, they sit back and predict doom-and-gloom to those who are thriving in a 21st century economy. This thinking has it's roots in jealousy. People who feel like this often aren't able to accomplish much in life, so they shit on others who do because it helps to drown out their own feelings of inadequacy.
If you don't have a clue as to the benefits that white collar workers such as office personnel, IT specialists, policy writers and economists provide to society, it's cool to just say you don't understand. If you just dismiss their work as if what they do isn't important, this just makes you look jealous and ignorant. Maybe you aren't aware, but there are many people who have claimed that the death of megacities and suburbs are just around the corner, and plenty of "experts" have been saying this for decades, yet more people move to suburbs and megacities every year. Your opinion isn't based on facts or reality. Your opinion is based on wanting bad things to happen to people you perceive as being more successful than you.
 
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Posted - Dec 28 2016 : 11:43PM
^ I'm pretty sure charn is analyzing things at a somewhat higher and clearer level than 'jealousy'.
The process of civilization meltdown is glacial - slow and unstoppable. Consider yourself lucky you won't be around to witness the final throes - although, given how much longer you clearly have to live (based on current life expectancy), maybe not...
 
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Posted - Dec 29 2016 : 12:21AM
The impending Trump presidency has sent this thread off on an unusual tangent.

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Posted - Dec 29 2016 : 12:57AM
And that's not the tip of the iceberg.

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Posted - Dec 29 2016 : 1:27AM
No, I really don't think he is. There is no evidence that megacities or suburbs are dying off. More people are moving there and they're getting bigger, so his statements have no basis in fact - they're simply feelings he has that aren't supported by any evidence. So what are charn's motivations for spewing a bunch of statements that have no basis in truth? Look at his statements about white collar workers. He has a hate-boner for people who work at their desks. Why? I certainly don't know exactly what his issue is, other than some significant knowledge gaps about how the modern world works, but from all appearances, it looks like a sad mix of jealousy and ignorance.
 
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Posted - Dec 29 2016 : 1:34AM
Charn gonna Charn.

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Posted - Dec 29 2016 : 1:46AM
And because this thread has taken a strange rural vs. metro turn, I'd like to reiterate what a number of people have stated earlier: If you are from a rural area, you're poor to middle-class, and you voted for Trump, you chose the wrong candidate. Trump is a city-dwelling billionaire who doesn't give a fuck about you. Seems like among his hard-core supporters, they still view him as a working-class hero. What a joke. It saddens me that there are probably millions of people who think Trump wants to do anything to help the poor.
 
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Meh
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Posted - Dec 29 2016 : 2:00AM
^ Well, he may not want to do anything for them but he definitely wants to do things to them:
Mother Jones:
Edited by - Mister Fahrenheit on 12/29/2016 2:00:20 AM

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Posted - Dec 29 2016 : 2:12AM
^
 
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Posted - Dec 29 2016 : 10:18AM
They do break down, though, and you won't know how long it will take to get someone out to repair them, or how long those repairs will take. That is, unless you want to sign a service contract that will probably cost you as much as you "saved" with your robots.
Furthermore, it isn't as if age, sex or race discrimination cases are that hard to avoid. All you have to do is not discriminate against people based upon their age, sex or race. Be clear about the rules and consistent about applying them. Sorry that's so difficult for you to accomplish, Mr. Genius Businessman.
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Posted - Dec 29 2016 : 11:40AM
Who was the last presidential nominee of a major party who wasn't a city-dwelling upper class member? I don't remember Hillary Clinton championing the family farmer or the small town business owner on her campaigns. She was too busy hosting fund raising dinners in Hollywood with $200,000 cover charges and organizing Beyonce concerts.
Not exactly the most effective way to stay in touch with the common man.
This isn't 1840. You aren't going to get any presidential candidates putting "built own log cabin for family to reside in" on their resume anymore. People would find an ad of Hillary Clinton out on a tractor plowing a field about as genuine and believable as Michael Dukakis in a tank.

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Posted - Dec 29 2016 : 11:47AM
I don't think that "city-dwelling billionaire" was the most relevant part of that statement. It's that Trump doesn't give a fuck about you. He doesn't.
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