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All smartbuydisc.rus > World News Nonsense > The 2016 Elections Thread > The 2016 Elections Thread (page 81)
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Posted - May 12 2018 : 1:24AM
SS, there's a good amount of links in this very thread about reasons for Trump's win. There's no single bullet theory but there are some core germs:
1) As I state above, Trump fired up Republicans with "Us Vs. Them", Hillary did not.
2) Part and parcel with #1, the Media covered Trump and his rallies 24/7.
3) Hillary Clinton is not a campaigner. And, I'll confess, this was a key to Obama winning. Increasingly, we as a nation want to be entertained during these two-year slogs for the presidency. Facts? Policies? Fuck that shit, let's see somebody get punched!
4) Dems were too divided. Bernie Sanders beat up Hillary non-stop. Between him and Trump, Hillary looked like Gerry Cooney after the Larry Holmes fight in '82.
5) Black People did not show up. It was African Americans who made the difference in recent elections in Alabama and Virginia.
6) Hillary's Email Server was a highly effective cudgel to use against her. (Note: Did GOPers really give a shit about her server? Of course not. But she handed it to them to use against her, and they obliged.)
7) Bill Clinton's baggage came along for the ride too.
8) Conservative Talk Radio and Fox kept hammering away at one specific issue: The Judiciary. Judges, Judges, Judges. While Democrats obsessed over emails and Goldman Sachs, those guys kept their eyes on what was REALLY important. "Grab 'em by the pussy" wasn't anywhere near as important as "Ruth Bader Ginsburg is 84 years old."

So that's just a few nuggets, that, like I said, are sprinkled throughout this thread and elsewhere.


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Posted - May 14 2018 : 6:12AM
^ Thanks.
I just saw an interview with Hillary Clinton during her tour. She highlighted some of the main reasons as:
- Facebook having false stories targeted to segments of the community. To people who don't follow politics and get their news only from Facebook.
- James Comey publicly having a campaign against her email activities, passing judgement, and then announcing re-opening the investigation days before the election. While keeping an investigation into Trump-Russia collusion secret.
No. 3 is interesting. Obama used a method of campaigning that could only actually work for Obama. Once he wasn't there, many of his voters left with him.
 
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Posted - May 14 2018 : 10:09AM
 
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Your other left
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Posted - May 14 2018 : 11:14AM
I call BS on this, and Clinton should know better.
The FBI was required to look into her handling of emails because of the Congressional investigation, and Comey was required to testify in that regard. Were the Republicans in the House playing politics? Probably, but the fact that her conduct was a gift to those Republicans is on Hillary Clinton, not James Comey.
If Trump and Russia are in collusion that is a completely different kettle of fish, and only a fool would think the head of the FBI, or the CIA, would discuss it in an open session of Congress.
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Posted - May 14 2018 : 4:57PM
Just for the record, Hillary has owned up to her errors but not enough. Facebook? Pssst. As I have stated, $2B in free air time to the Donald was more than enough.
I'm not saying Hillary needs to go away, but if wants to set an example, it's time to move forward to the future.

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Posted - May 15 2018 : 4:11AM
^^ & ^
“Clinton said Russia had “in a secret way” produced “more than 3500 ads to confuse our electorate, to try to damage me ... Facebook was accepting advertising in roubles”
“Clinton said she was certain the interference of former FBI director James Comey in the US presidential election had cost her winning office.
She said she did not know why he had notified Congress just 11 days before the election that he was investigating her private emails.
“I have laid out in I think very persuasive evidence that his intervention on October 28th was the most important reason why I ended up losing 11 days later,” Mrs Clinton told Sales.
“I don’t know why he treated me the way that he did and none of his explanations frankly hold water.”
“Clinton said she believed that no matter how ridiculous the rumours about her in the final weeks of the election that American voters, who didn’t follow mainstream media, swallowed the propaganda.”

Here's the interview.
(ADT related. The highbrow public journalist on national television quoted Trump "Grab'em by the ..." and actually said the word. I was in complete shock.)

Edited by - Simple Simon on 5/15/2018 4:25:24 AM


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Posted - May 15 2018 : 4:50AM
^ A brutal analysis of that interview.

"Clinton spent 10 seconds robotically mouthing the sort of hollow words beaten politicians are always obligated to say, accepting responsibility for her defeat — and the other 16 minutes blaming everyone else
[...]
Yes, I take responsibility. But I got more votes and there was fake news and Comey wrote that letter. So yes, I take responsibility.
Not one word describing what she actually did wrong. Not one example of what she could have done better. She would rather talk about “low information voters” falling for fake news.
Somehow, even after the most humiliating political defeat imaginable, she still doesn’t get it."

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Posted - May 15 2018 : 12:30PM
She's right.

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Posted - May 16 2018 : 3:46AM
^ As in it happened, or as in it cost Clinton the election?
From the article above.
"Clinton’s defeat should have sparked some serious introspection. But instead of figuring out what she did wrong, she has chosen to blame everyone but herself.
The fundamental problem with Ms Clinton’s campaign was enshrined all along in its ridiculous slogan: “I’m With Her.”
Not “She’s With You”. “I’m With Her.” It was the wrong way around. To her devoted fans, it sounded wonderful, but to everyone else it sounded like a bizarre loyalty pledge.
Voters have long described Ms Clinton as being “entitled” and “out of touch”. They feel as though she thinks they should support her, not the other way around.
She failed to dispel that impression in 2016 — and that, not James Comey, is the biggest reason she lost.
Even now, Ms Clinton shows no signs of understanding that. She remains trapped in a bubble of sycophants."
 
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Posted - May 16 2018 : 8:52AM
Clinton's supporters shouldn't lose sight of the fact that she lost in the Electoral College, despite getting more of the popular vote. That's snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. So, James Comey wasn't the problem, bad strategy was the problem.

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Posted - May 16 2018 : 11:25AM
As in, there are many factors that played into Clinton's loss.
We will never know what would have happened without Comey, because it's the road not taken.
And it is impossible that there was no effect at all from Putin's trolls on facebook. We can't measure the effect, but there was an effect.
There's not much that Hillary can do to change her persona. People are who they are. She is experienced and capable, but the country judges on other things. I don't recommend that she pretend to be something she's not. It's of no interest to me to see candidates visit the state fair in every burg and eat a hot dog. Sadly, it seems to be a critical thing.
And there's not much she can do to combat misogyny, which absolutely played a role.
People lose to populists. You can win an election by making big, false promises. You can win by validating people's hatred and blame of 'the other' for their life circumstances.
I don't recommend that the democrats do the same. They may have to take some losses.
The responsibility is on voters.
 
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Posted - May 16 2018 : 12:45PM
^^

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Posted - May 17 2018 : 7:22AM
^
Going back to 2008 is interesting. Hillary Clinton fully expected to be the Democrat nominee. When she was blindsided, and then sat patiently for eight years, I think she truly believed the country owed her the presidency.
^^ Ummm ... I don't want to open up a can of worms.
Yes, there are people who do not want a female leader. That does not automatically mean they have a hatred of women. (Is it possible to stop throwing that term around willy-nilly?)
And just because someone didn't want Hillary Clinton as their President, it doesn't automatically mean they do not want a woman as their President. (A certain Alaskan lady.)
Looking back at the campaign, I actually think it was an opposite effect. The highbrow media's obsession with having the first (Democrat) female President, and the manner the Trump campaign and his supporters were regarded, probably had a significant effect in Clinton losing the election.
(^ From the article.
"The Clintonites simply did not prepare as well as I am sure they now wish they had. I suspect that some of the anger we see from Clinton backers comes from their own reflection that if they had planned and executed better they would be ahead [...]. You get really angry when you have no one to blame but yourself."
LOL. Looks like they didn't learn from their mistakes.)
Edited by - Simple Simon on 5/17/2018 7:39:54 AM

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Posted - May 17 2018 : 10:47AM
I'll just use it when it's accurate. It's accurate.
Misogyny: dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
This comes into play whenever you have someone who isn't creeped out at all by Trump bellowing and railing, but the minute a woman takes 'an attitude' she's shrill, she's a bitch, etc. It's a different set of rules for women. Something about it reminds people of mom telling you to clean up your room, get your socks off the floor, and take that bowl back to the kitchem. Or whatever. In a hundred different ways.
We have no evidence that she won the presidency. In fact, we have 45 men and zero women. It's not a coincidence. It's a trend. Or a glass ceiling.
So you're saying that the media announcing that the next president would be female mobilized people to vote to make sure that wouldn't happen? Yeah. That's misogyny.
It looks like this:
Group deciding the future of birth control and pregnancy care -
women's maternity care.jpg

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Posted - May 21 2018 : 8:21AM
I thought this was obvious to everyone after the 2000 election, but America just accepted nothing would change.
“ … the American election system is a disaster. It’s administered at the local level, by thousands of jurisdictions across the country. It’s often grossly underfunded. Voter registration systems are truly a mess. Put it all together, and we have a very ineffective voting system that always produces a steady stream of errors.”
(/>

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Posted - Jun 7 2018 : 4:10AM
I saw this on a re-run of the British show ‘The Last Leg’ yesterday, which was recorded just before the election. (This has probably been stated before, but it’s the first I’d heard it presented this way.)
Hillary Clinton states the FBI announcing the re-opening of her email investigations in the final days of the campaign as a major factor in her losing the election.
The reason the investigation was re-opened was because the FBI was investigating the computer of Anthony Weiner, due to his
private indiscretions, and on his computer found additional Clinton emails. (After Clinton claimed they were all handed over.)
So this could mean the penchant of a Democrat to send pictures of his penis to underage girls is what cost Hillary Clinton the election.

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Posted - Jun 9 2018 : 2:43AM
In a local smartbuydisc.ru, someone replied to a comment of mine with the below response. I thought it might interest someone.
"...stuff continually coming up that reminded people why the don’t like Clinton. It wasn’t so much Trump won, in the sense he didn’t pull many more votes than Romney or McCain, rather Clinton dropped 12 million votes compared to Obama08. The biggest drops were black female and white blue collar voters. Black female vote just stayed home, 40,000 in Detroit alone that would have flipped Michigan back blue. White rust belt males did turn."
 
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Woman of the Decade
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Posted - Jun 9 2018 : 3:10AM
^
Well yeah, that was #5 on my list above. Overall, if 78,000 more voters combined between Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania had come out -- less people than is needed to fill Chicago's Soldier Field -- Hillary would have won those states and therefore, the election.
 
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Woman of the Decade
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Posted - Jun 9 2018 : 3:16AM
^^^
We talked about Anthony Weiner here and [ invalid url ]]

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Posted - Jun 14 2018 : 4:27AM
From Fox News.

“A slew of FBI and DOJ officials could face a reckoning when Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz on Thursday releases a long-awaited reportdetailing his review of the Hillary Clinton investigation during the 2016 presidential race.
[...]
For more than a year, Horowitz has been reviewing the FBI and DOJ’s actions related to its investigation into Clinton’s use of a private email server while she was secretary of state.
The report is not expected to address the DOJ and FBI’s actions taken in the Trump-Russia investigation, or relitigate the Clinton case itself. But it will mark the most definitive accounting of the email probe to date, looking at -- among other things -- whether “certain underlying investigative decisions were based on improper considerations.””
On a documentary I saw on the weekend, they theorised on the reason the FBI announced it was re-opening the investigation only days before the election. Like almost everyone, the FBI thought Clinton was going to win; and they knew the new investigation would come out after the election. They suspected the FBI believed that not announcing the re-opening would make it appear they were trying to hide this to benefit Clinton

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Posted - Jun 15 2018 : 5:43PM
The report was released yesterday.
So, the emails on Weiner's computer were actually discovered a month earlier than the announcement. I didn't know that. Wow.

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Posted - Jun 15 2018 : 8:03PM
My local conservative commentator.

"the evidence now is overwhelming - thanks in part to the extraordinary  new report by the Department of Justice inspector general - that there is a dangerous bias against Trump in the FBI.
In fact, I'd call it sinister, and even more reason to suspect that Trump really is the victim of a Deep State operation to depose him."
"looks like the greatest US political scandal since Watergate, yet how many journalists are turning a blind eye?"
 
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Posted - Jun 16 2018 : 12:49AM
A "bias" against a presidential candidate/contender who seems to be completely integrated into the Russian government. Shocking.
Next thing, we'll find out that the Minnesota Viking's defensive line corps are "biased" against Aaron Rodgers.
 
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Posted - Jun 16 2018 : 1:43AM
^^
Like to hear Strzok elaborate on how "we" were going to stop Trump. Clearly, they didn't.
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Posted - Jun 16 2018 : 4:46AM
^ Didn't he say he meant 'we' the American people, not 'we' the FBI?
If you watch the video in the FB link above that, they discuss this.
(They also discuss the alleged attempt to hide the new Clinton emails that were found, meant that when Comey did end up finding out only days before the election, and then publicly announced the re-opening of the investigation, actually ended up hurting Clinton far more. Some say, including Clinton herself, ended up costing the election. So, if correct, their attempts actually backfired.)
 
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Literotica.com - grover10
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Posted - Jun 16 2018 : 9:38AM
^^^

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Posted - Jun 16 2018 : 9:59AM
^^^^ That was my first thought as well.
My conservative brother always complained that ninety-something percent of journalists were democrats, and I replied that it makes sense, since they are better informed than most people.
 
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Literotica.com - grover10
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Posted - Jun 16 2018 : 10:24AM
^

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Posted - Jun 27 2018 : 7:18AM
Fox News: Hillary Clinton and her World Excuses tour.

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Posted - Jun 28 2018 : 7:22AM
^And what excuse do Trump voters have, especially given what we have now? There's a quote from NYT columnist Charles M. Blow
That's what Trump voters had to believe to vote for a bigoted, self-serving narcissist. They got what they wanted, and now they have to deal with it.
_________________________________


Hypnosis Should Be A Porn Thing


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Posted - Jun 28 2018 : 11:23AM
^
That's a fantastic article.
I am deeply puzzled when I see women and blacks (etc.) who vote for Trump. I'm baffled as to what they read his message as.

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Posted - Jun 29 2018 : 6:04AM
"the most qualified woman"?
Funnily, when Clinton's book tour was in my city, in this thread i quoted from a city paper reasons people wouldn't vote for Clinton.
" 'Shattered', in which two Clinton sympathisers describe how Clinton threw away the election by running a campaign so inept and clueless that she never even got around to figuring just why she was running in the first place.”
Some insightful reader comments
“She should have tried not calling most of Middle America "deplorable" and then not visiting any of those Middle States. She flew over them with disdain.”
“What on earth could she possibly talk about for an hour and a half, to keep an audience interested?"
... hubby's philandering, and why she not only put up with it, but acted as her hubby's attack dog to denigrate and dehumanise his female victims?
... paid for that fake Trump Dossier?
... rigged the primaries to shaft Bernie Sanders?
... get debate questions in advance?
... the 'pay for play' donations to the Clinton Foundation?"
As for people not voting for Clinton because they don't want a woman as President, I'm sure many of those people would have voted for Sarah Palin.
(And yes, I know I've just made up a hypothetical response to a hypothetical scenario.)

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Posted - Jun 29 2018 : 10:29AM
I think that the general statement, "(Trumpism) is the belief that even the least qualified man is a better choice than the most qualified woman..."
Is perfectly well illustrated in this photo:
Group deciding the future of birth control and pregnancy care -
women's maternity care.jpg

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Posted - Jul 4 2018 : 5:34AM

“A MEMBER of Donald Trump’s inner circle has revealed a surprising truth about the President — and how he uses it to turn the tables in his favour.”
“could pinpoint the moment she was sure [Trump] would defeat Hillary Clinton. It had nothing to do with how likeable he was.
“We had the two most unlikeable candidates in history … There was really not much likeable about them at all, so that wasn’t a factor.”
Instead, she observed a steady gathering of voter anger with the direction of the US under Barack Obama. It began with the loss of Democrat seats in the House of Representatives in 2010, and snowballed over the next six years with the loss of more than a dozen Senate seats and a similar number of state governors as well as over 100 state seats nationwide.
“That was the country saying, ‘We are not going along with the Democratic platform.’ The most foolish thing Hillary Clinton said was she was running for Obama’s third term.”
[...]
"Why she felt the need to come out and say that, I mean dear god, as a woman, you rode Bill’s coat-tails, now you’re trying to ride Obama’s. You know, just ride your own.”"
 
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Posted - Jul 4 2018 : 11:06AM

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Posted - Sep 4 2018 : 7:55AM
A local current affairs program went to America to interview Steve Bannon.

(It's amazing how these multi-millionaires are so concerned about the common man. Not just in their own country, they now want to take that caring around the world.)

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Posted - Sep 22 2018 : 8:22AM
An interesting opinion piece comparing the reaction to Serena Williams receiving a game penalty for abusing an umpire to how Hillary Clinton lost the election. Basically, a bunch wannabe high-brows talking to themselves and actually believing the rest of the world cares.

"It would be calming to dismiss [...] the grandstanding by Serena’s out-there army [...] as harmless narcissism but the problem is that it was the dismissal of all this that delivered us Trump in the first place.
Who can forget the supremely self-aggrandising “I’m with her” line run by Hillary Clinton that turned an unlosable presidential campaign into an east coast vanity project complete with its own as-yet-unbroken glass ceiling at the victory party?
And who can forget the fact that Trump swept through the working class rust-belt states of Middle America while Hillary was partying with Beyonce?
Tellingly, Hillary supporters still regard the fact she lost the election while winning the popular vote as a great injustice. In fact it only underscores how hopelessly smug her campaign was. To take home almost three million more votes than your opponent yet still lose the critical swing states is an almost savant level of incompetence.
If so-called progressive forces really want to wrest power back from the populist tidal wave that is ploughing through the foundations of liberal democratic institutions the world over they need to stop worrying about the feelings of millionaire tennis players [...] and start worrying about the feelings of ordinary working people."

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Posted - Sep 22 2018 : 10:48AM
It's not about the feelings of millionaire tennis players. It's about "the belief that even the least qualified man is a better choice than the most qualified woman," and it affects everyone.
 
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Posted - Sep 22 2018 : 9:32PM
^^
Well frankly SS, it's fine to see Serena Williams as a "millionaire tennis player" sure, but she's also a Black woman. And Black women are the most reliable voters the Democrats have.
And if we've learned anything from Trumplicans, it's that it makes sense to cater to your voting bloc, no?
 
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Posted - Sep 23 2018 : 12:13AM
^ It's not about catering to your voters, it's about serving the citizens.
Obama needed to do something for the citizens of Flint as their water supply was being poisoned. He didn't, and the citizens of Flint largely stayed home on Election day.
Serena Williams isn't running for Congress.
 
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Posted - Sep 23 2018 : 1:13AM
^
So Flint is Obama's fault? Governor Rick Snyder bears no responsibility here?
And what has His Orangeness been doing about it for the last 20 months?
I mean, besides helpfully playing the incredibly non-elitist sport of golf every weekend at his $215,000-per-year Country Club?

Edited by - Smiler Grogan on 9/23/2018 1:14:54 AM
 
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Posted - Sep 23 2018 : 1:34AM
You're kidding with this right? The GOP does nothing BUT cater to its voters. They have the campaigning this down to a fine science. Guns Everywhere. Christians are a Persecuted Minority.
Kick Out All The Brown People.
Meanwhile, while everyone's distracted by window dressing like Serena Williams and NFL Players, give the corporations and the richest 1% a big ole tax cut.
It's genius, it works, and Dems could do worse than adopt such a tactic.
 
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Posted - Sep 25 2018 : 7:52PM


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Posted - Sep 26 2018 : 4:12AM
So none of those people would have voted for Sarah Palin?

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Posted - Sep 26 2018 : 10:10AM
I don't know what you're talking about there.
And the reply:
It's not an either-or. You can have concern about the way women are treated, and also have concern about 'ordinary' people.
I don't see how Sarah Palin enters into it, and I don't know who the "none of those people" are. It all seems to have migrated here from some other discussion that I was not a party to.

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Posted - Oct 13 2018 : 7:23AM
^ Sorry for the late reply.
With regard to the editorial about Sirena Williams, I need to put that in context. Following that event at the US open, in my country it created endless 'I told you' arguments. I follow a lot of left-leaning outlets, and they were full of comments about how this showed how poorly all women are treated. That when men stand up for themselves, they are regarded as strong, but when a woman does it, they are seen as hysterical. It was held ip as definitive evidence that women are oppresded. All that happened was a millionaire woman tennis player, after receiving a warning, continously abused a referee and was given a game penalty. As per the election, how would the actual oppressed women of the world be seeing this?
With regard to Sarah Palin, that was in regard to the 'least qualified man better than most qualified woman statement'. You can't state as fact that a significant reason people didn't vote for Clinton is because they didn't want a woman as president. To support this, I claim that many of those people that didn't vote for Clinton would have voted for Palin. (Yes, I know that's hypothetical and can't be demonstrated, but that's probably the case for most post-election statements on this thread.)

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Posted - Oct 13 2018 : 11:16AM
The penalty was unprecedented, and people had videos of in which male players like McEnroe melted down with far less backlash (plenty more videos where that came from). Such behavior from men was tolerated with far less penalty.
It's not complicated. White men can rant and get angry (see McEnroe, Trump, Kavanaugh, Graham, Grassley, etc.). Women who do an angry rant -- it's hardly even a thing -- are seen as emotional, hysterical, unstable, uppity, disrespectful, etc.
They might not be seeing this at all. I doubt that ISIS has 'their' women sitting around watching women's tennis on the big flat screen tv. I've seen oppressed women. They are squatting and breaking rocks with little rock hammers in Agra, with a guy lounging on a charpoy 'supervising' them. They ain't watching tv.
You need a Venn diagram for this. Clinton got more votes than Trump.
And Palin was running for vice president. People have different standards for vice president than for president. There are people who would vote for an m-f ticket who won't vote for a f-m ticket. Venn diagram.
But the election fight in a country split 50-50 is always going to come down to a few tiny percentage points, and somewhere in your Venn diagram there are people who won't vote for a woman.
Just a day ago, we saw Kanye saying that he likes Hillary but couldn't vote for her because he was turned off by the "I'm with her" slogan, because what with him not having a solid male father figure and all, he needed the male energy that Trump projected. So you have, for one, guys with Daddy issues. Venn diagram. Straight from the voter's mouth. We're fighting over a fraction of a percentage point in these elections.

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Posted - Oct 13 2018 : 11:23AM

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Posted - Oct 14 2018 : 4:40PM

"Hillary Clinton said Sunday that her husband’s presidential affair with Monica Lewinsky wasn’t an abuse of power — because the then-22-year-old White House intern “was an adult.”"
"Pressed on whether Bill had committed an abuse of power — since a president of the United States couldn’t have a consensual relationship with an intern
— she added, “No, no” because Lewinsky “was an adult.”"
"Clinton said sexism is a reason for her loss to President Trump in 2016, in addition to Russian election meddling and the investigation into her e-mails."
"Clinton said she played “no role” in criticizing the character of the women who accused her husband of sexual misconduct.
“No role,” Clinton said. “I take responsibility for my life and my actions.”"
-------
"a president of the United States couldn’t have a consensual relationship with an intern"
Ummm ... that's the first I've heard of that.
H. Clinton: “I take responsibility for my ... actions.”
LOL! In parenthisis: 'After I've blamed everyone else possible'.

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Posted - Oct 14 2018 : 5:05PM
It was an abuse of power AND Lewinsky was an adult.
Sexism WAS a reason for her loss to President Trump in 2016, in addition to Russian election meddling and the investigation into her e-mails.
I'm sure that Hillary did criticize the character of the women who accused her husband of sexual misconduct, but I don't remember. So I looked it up. -- though some of them were private comments, not public. I don't think there was much public commentary, but her "stand by your man" thing is disgusting. It's disgusting from anybody, and ridiculous that people still do it.
Edited just to make the link work.
Edited by - Pieps on 10/18/2018 11:40:57 AM
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