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Senior Member

“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard
7236 Posts
8/09
Posted - Sep 10 2015 : 12:01AM
^
Amen Hardware.
The police have gotten way too many powers. Don't get me started on the no-knock warrants (how many innocent people/animals have been killed?), enter private property and place tracking devices on private vehichles without permission or knowledge of owner, etc. etc.
 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13923 Posts
1/08
Posted - Sep 10 2015 : 1:20AM

My two big questions are this:
The first police officers -- I'm surprised they didn't take him in. I do not know much about Milwaukee or this Red Arrow Park he was sleeping in, but I'm curious as to how someone is able to sleep in a public place and not be arrested for loitering. That is standard at most places. If he had been taking in by the first guys, he'd probably still be alive.
And FOURTEEN gunshots? Fourteen?!?!
urthoughts
Deactivated User

it takes a real wolf to expose true sheep
3999 Posts
7/12
Posted - Sep 10 2015 : 2:29PM

would be interesting to see what the probability of a black person being killed by a police officer vs a police officer being killed by a black person is

Senior Member

Look Into My Eyes--
1424 Posts
4/08
Posted - Sep 10 2015 : 2:46PM

____________________________________________________

"There he goes talking about that Hypnosis thing again."

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All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13923 Posts
1/08
Posted - Sep 10 2015 : 2:46PM
Not that the issue has any real connection with the Presidency but in case you were interested,
Of course, if you were really interested instead of trolling, you could have just looked up the information yourself.


Senior Member

"In Defense of Rape and Incest" by Steve King
6995 Posts
11/13
Posted - Sep 10 2015 : 3:46PM
I was just pondering making the same suggestion.
Of course, I already sort of did. Urthoughts, just start your own thread about stuff black people do.
As for me, it's sad that it's even a question whether criminals kill cops more than cops kill innocent people.
 
All-Star Member

4648 Posts
8/11
Posted - Sep 11 2015 : 1:30AM
The relationship between the police and the community they are serving is certainly pertinent to this thread. Unnecessary violence in either direction speaks to that relationship. The title is What The Hell Is Wrong With Cops? You aren't going to get any answers by listing incidents and saying tsk tsk.
 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13923 Posts
1/08
Posted - Sep 11 2015 : 9:01PM
You are correct, but the specific question "how many cops killed during the Obama presidency" is just trolling.
[link inactive:404 - Page not found]Most cops killed in the US in the line of duty were in Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana. Do we blame the those states' conservative governors and legislatures for that?

Edited by - Smiler Grogan on 9/11/2015 9:01:54 PM

 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13923 Posts
1/08
Posted - Sep 11 2015 : 9:22PM

Of course, these headlines are wonderful for Fox News' Ratings...
urthoughts
Deactivated User

it takes a real wolf to expose true sheep
3999 Posts
7/12
Posted - Sep 12 2015 : 11:39AM
who asked how many cops were killed during the obama presidency
urthoughts
Deactivated User

it takes a real wolf to expose true sheep
3999 Posts
7/12
Posted - Sep 12 2015 : 11:48AM
more people are in jail in america than anywhere else on the planet. is that the fault of the police or the ones who control them? the only thing a cop can do is put you in a holding cell and still (in the state of ny dont know about others) needs his supervisors authorization to do that. when prisons are no longer money makers maybe the tension between police and civilians will be eased
urthoughts
Deactivated User

it takes a real wolf to expose true sheep
3999 Posts
7/12
Posted - Sep 12 2015 : 12:01PM
how was 1 cop involved in a "sting" operation.....for credit card fraud?..... james blakes gonna get a nice check

fubar

7535 Posts
12/09
Posted - Sep 13 2015 : 11:57PM
When cops shoot unarmed people because they fear for their lives, they identify themselves as scared bitches. Anyone that is a real danger knows how to manipulate such fear.

Senior Member

“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard
7236 Posts
8/09
Posted - Sep 14 2015 : 8:47PM
Just regarding charges, yeah, they can charge you with crimes. But they can and have added BS charges (resisting arrest, assault) that can't be really contested in court if a fellow officer verifies and validates the BS charges. Judges/juries believe 1 or 2 officers with average records over average citizens.
You are right, the police mission in the big picture is to deliver the suspect to jail for due process, not to be judge/jury/executioner (unless directly threatened) or deliver a suspect as a bloody pulp after 6 officers take turns magic circling a suspect lying on the ground. The real issue is excessive force, police brutality, inappropriate use of lethal force and cold blooded executions.
I'll reiterate. There have been over a hundred thousand of young troops (some fresh out of high school - around 18-20, not high-speed Delta shooters) operating in hot, hostile urban environments, over the past 2 decades. Facing AKs, machine guns, RPGs, IEDs, etc. etc. who adhere to rules of engagements.
Why are young troops, in full-blown war environments, able to adhere to ROEs and LOAC (not firing on persons without weapons in hand or at ready) and police officers don't either have any ROEs or not adhere to them? Especially, since the Reagan and Clinton eras of large increases in police forces, funding, and powers.
Contrasting the growing evidence of video footage (which is the main reason why people are pissed - able to witness some of these atrocious acts) of some police, who serve the public. Imagine if you had a teenager in high school that had a run in with police, police go Hollywood and brandish pistol without subject having any weapons. As a minor or even adult, suspect is overcome with fear with gun in his face and drops his hands out of nervousness. Crack x 8.
Now the other aspect, ask yourself if this would happen to a 40 year old white male with a suit and tie or an elderly person? It wouldn’t, or if so, at drastically lower rates. If these unjust excess force and killings happened to white youngsters, I'm sure you'd see a larger move for change.
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Senior Member

"In Defense of Rape and Incest" by Steve King
6995 Posts
11/13
Posted - Sep 14 2015 : 10:40PM
so thought I'd post it here. It's the guy in Houston running away from cops so he can surrender when none of them are around to shoot him. The video is 13 minutes, but you can advance it to 9:50, and there's about 2 minutes there that are the heart of the matter. It makes me wonder if that is going to be a 'thing,' guys endangering the public in high speed chases in order to surrender when they know they are on camera and/or there are no police nearby.
 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13923 Posts
1/08
Posted - Sep 15 2015 : 12:39PM
^He is definitely wrong for going at that high rate of speed, but it IS legal to refuse to pull over for police until you can get to a well-lit, well-populated location such as a gas station, etc. You should just do it in a low-speed manner (a la OJ Simpson) that indicates you're not trying to evade.
urthoughts
Deactivated User

it takes a real wolf to expose true sheep
3999 Posts
7/12
Posted - Sep 15 2015 : 12:58PM
^^^ im sure Smiler Grogan has researched police brutality even against white youth. so to say this would get more attention if the cops started abusing white youth isnt accurate because the uncontrollable cops are already beating everybody up (according to public opinion) or are they only beating up the poor. if you wanna say they would beat up a white kid in a slum of michigan but wont touch an asian child from scarsdale ny that could be true.

Senior Member

"In Defense of Rape and Incest" by Steve King
6995 Posts
11/13
Posted - Sep 15 2015 : 4:25PM
The problem is that if he gets out of the car with police within sight range, the police are close enough to shoot and claim he had something in his hand or "advanced menacingly," or had his hands near his waist line, or whatever. All the sorts of claims they have made even when video later shows that the guy had done nothing. So it's not enough to comply, AND it's not enough to comply on video. You have to comply, on video, with no cops near enough to shoot, to try to ensure your safety. In this case, the guy must have reasoned that it required a high speed chase to get a safe distance from the cops.
The guy on video also looks very healthy and athletic, and uninjured, another good thing to have on video.

Senior Member

“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard
7236 Posts
8/09
Posted - Sep 15 2015 : 4:31PM
^ Pieps, have you read all the stories of dogs being shot by police on private property, many times just doing checkups, wrong raids, and talking to tenants for investigations (not necessarily involved e.g., witnesses).

Senior Member

"In Defense of Rape and Incest" by Steve King
6995 Posts
11/13
Posted - Sep 15 2015 : 7:00PM
I don't read them intentionally.
Edited by - Pieps on 9/15/2015 7:01:13 PM
urthoughts
Deactivated User

it takes a real wolf to expose true sheep
3999 Posts
7/12
Posted - Sep 16 2015 : 1:36AM

guess you can have one rogue peaceful protester

fubar

7535 Posts
12/09
Posted - Sep 19 2015 : 10:28PM
Some cops beat the kids and have misdemeanor charges, but WTF? Who are the assholes who decided to make a children's boot camp?
Edited by - charn on 9/19/2015 10:41:54 PM
urthoughts
Deactivated User

it takes a real wolf to expose true sheep
3999 Posts
7/12
Posted - Sep 23 2015 : 2:52AM
damn cops locking up a child
image.jpg

Senior Member

"In Defense of Rape and Incest" by Steve King
6995 Posts
11/13
Posted - Sep 23 2015 : 11:06AM
^The police never thought for a minute that it was a bomb. No explosives. No evacuation of the school. No special handling of the box with wires. They handcuffed the kid anyway.
Nobody is saying it's inappropriate to investigate a 'suspicious' device that the geeky kid who likes electronics brought to school. They are objecting to the mistreatment of the kid.
So, if you see something, say something. Fine. But there's no need, when you've ascertained that there is no danger whatsoever, to persecute a kid.
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urthoughts
Deactivated User

it takes a real wolf to expose true sheep
3999 Posts
7/12
Posted - Sep 23 2015 : 11:54PM
thats why i said damn cops
urthoughts
Deactivated User

it takes a real wolf to expose true sheep
3999 Posts
7/12
Posted - Sep 24 2015 : 3:43PM
maybe the kid was uncooperative. maybe his sister had been suspended 3 years earlier for making bomb threats. maybe his dad is an activist. maybe this " geeky" kid making a box with wires hanging out and a timer isnt just a coincidence

fubar

7535 Posts
12/09
Posted - Sep 24 2015 : 6:03PM
Natural selection. When cops shoot unarmed citizens they raise the odds of meeting someone armed next time.

fubar

7535 Posts
12/09
Posted - Oct 2 2015 : 6:03AM
How bad can that story get? A schizophrenic cop killer would be only the middle of that range.
 
All-Star Member

"You have sacrificed nothing and no one."
6309 Posts
8/10
Posted - Oct 25 2015 : 7:17AM
[invalid URL removed]The Disproportionate Risks of Driving While Black
GREENSBORO, N.C. — Rufus Scales, 26 and black, was driving his younger brother Devin to his hair-cutting class in this genteel, leafy city when they heard the siren’s whoop and saw the blue light in the rearview mirror of their black pickup. Two police officers pulled them over for minor infractions that included expired plates and failing to hang a flag from a load of scrap metal in the pickup’s bed. But what happened next was nothing like a routine traffic stop.
Uncertain whether to get out of the car, Rufus Scales said, he reached to restrain his brother from opening the door. A black officer stunned him with a Taser, he said, and a white officer yanked him from the driver’s seat. Temporarily paralyzed by the shock, he said, he fell face down, and the officer dragged him across the asphalt.
Rufus Scales emerged from the encounter with four traffic tickets; a charge of assaulting an officer, later dismissed; a chipped tooth; and a split upper lip that required five stitches.
That was May 2013. Today, his brother Devin does not leave home without first pocketing a hand-held video camera and a business card with a toll-free number for legal help. Rufus Scales instinctively turns away if a police car approaches.
“Whenever one of them is near, I don’t feel comfortable. I don’t feel safe,” he said.
(much more...)

Senior Member

"In Defense of Rape and Incest" by Steve King
6995 Posts
11/13
Posted - Oct 25 2015 : 11:04AM
I was telling my husband about the article yesterday, and my favorite part is the ending (spoilers!).
no sidewalks.jpg
urthoughts
Deactivated User

it takes a real wolf to expose true sheep
3999 Posts
7/12
Posted - Oct 25 2015 : 12:07PM
Damn white cops always beatin unarmed black men
image.jpeg
 
All-Star Member

"You have sacrificed nothing and no one."
6309 Posts
8/10
Posted - Oct 25 2015 : 12:33PM
Leave it to urthoughts to always bring the snowball to the "discussion" [o\|]
InhofeSnowball.jpg
 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13923 Posts
1/08
Posted - Oct 27 2015 : 10:51PM
In a world where shooting Tamir Rice is "reasonable" and in a state that spawned Walter Scott's assassin, as well as Dylan Roof, this comes as little surprise.
South Carolina Body Slam.PNG
This is where we are now as a country.
This is the new normal.
There's no amount of hashtagging, lawsuits, or once-in-blue-moon jail sentences that can stop it.
God Bless America.
 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13923 Posts
1/08
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 2:59AM
Oh, BTW, the student who filmed this was also arrested. That is, of course, the next logical step; erase all incriminating evidence of misconduct, so that the officer can always have the benefit of the doubt.

Senior Member

"In Defense of Rape and Incest" by Steve King
6995 Posts
11/13
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 12:24PM
I know. The new normal. Been there, seen that, nothin' abnormal going on here. "She shoulda put her phone away, then."

Senior Member

San Diego, CA
7122 Posts
11/03
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 3:00PM
^^^^^^^
Friends -
In the two day, (so far), mania since this incident came to public light, I have yet to see a responsible discussion on how this situation SHOULD have been handled. By ALL parties in the supervisory element. The media reporting, and what dialogue there has been, has only served to sink the topic into the usual emotional hysteria about culture in American society. That doesn't speak to the issue at hand.
Most reasonable people, (me included), believe that the officer's actions were excessive and inappropriate to the situation. They can't be excused or justified, therefore he should be fired. End of story, do not pass go. He's gone. So that's no longer part of the discussion, or the central issue.
But that doesn't fix the problem, or resolve anything.
The FACTS of the situation, (as I understand them), are this:
1 - The student was using a cell phone in class, the teacher told her to stop and or give it to him, she refused. The teacher asked her to leave the room, she refused.
2 - The teacher called an assistant principal to the room, who when appraised of the situation also asked the student to either surrender the cell phone, or leave the room, or both. (I'm not sure which.) The student also refused the assistant principal.
3 - The assistant principal called the uniformed resource officer to the room, he asked the student to leave the room. She refused him as well. The resource officer informed the student of his intentions and the consequences if she continued to not comply with his directions. She continued to refuse.
4 - The resource officer then committed a fireable offense.
During all of this, the other students of the classroom were hostage to this disruptive situation. No learning or legitimate school activity was able to occur, they were witness to a violation of the rules by a classmate, (no cell phones in class), followed by the direct insubordination by the same classmate towards at least three known authority figures who were in the proper exercise of their jobs. Finally, the students were witness to a horrifying, violent act.
Okay sports fans, how do we handle this?
I don't want to hear about what shouldn't have happened. We know what shouldn't have happened, and that situation will take care of itself once reasonable people have time to act. I don't wanna hear about the cop's background, I don't wanna hear about the girl's background, I don't wanna hear about ineffective parenting, or how back in the day teachers could whip our ass..., none of that matters.
How do we address this nonsense in our public schools?
BSD
 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13923 Posts
1/08
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 3:35PM
^
Maybe take the phone away and tell her that her parents will have to come in to pick it up?
IOW, same thing that's been done since my grandmother was in junior high.
edit: Let me make myself clear; of course there weren't cellphones when my grandmother was in school. I'm just talking about whenever students have brought in outside items not allowed in class -- makeup, dolls, cameras, porn magazines, etc. And yeah, I have some personal experience there....
Edited by - Smiler Grogan on 10/28/2015 3:43:10 PM
 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13923 Posts
1/08
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 3:39PM
"Officer Slam" has been fired. Criminal charges? I'm not holding my breath. Although he does face charges on another similar incident, hence the nickname given to him by students.
The girl now has a cast on her arm, abrasions on her forehead.
 
All-Star Member

Your other left
28339 Posts
3/02
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 3:39PM
Since we know nothing about the girl it is impossible to know what tack would work, but I would expect a teacher to know his, or her students, and thus know how to deal with each individual.
If the student is immune to a psychological ploy then you either remove the class to another room, or you summon enough people to pick up both desk and student and carry them out of the room, or you dismiss the class. What you absolutely do not do is initiate a physical altercation with a student.

fubar

7535 Posts
12/09
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 3:57PM
Same as airports: block cellphone signals.

Senior Member

"In Defense of Rape and Incest" by Steve King
6995 Posts
11/13
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 4:40PM
The situation is roughly analogous to passing notes in class. That's been happening since the dawn of time without the police needing to interfere. In actuality, the texting is probably done under the desk (just the same sort of thing as reading comic books or looking at porn mags), and doesn't in itself disrupt the class.
Keeping kids from using cell phones in class seems a bit impossible, just as it was always impossible to stop 100% of note-passing, or eating in class on the sly. The surefire way to do it IS to block the signals, which also means that a teacher who wants to make a phone call has to go to the office to use a corded phone. Wouldn't bother me a bit.
The classic response is to confiscate the phone and/or contact the parents to come pick up the kid.
Whatever it is, it's done without fisticuffs.
Boogie With Stu
Deactivated User

4948 Posts
1/13
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 5:14PM
Meanwhile, . I'm a bit surprised not to have seen previously on ADT, but perhaps I missed it in the sound and fury that is urthoughts.

Senior Member

San Diego, CA
7122 Posts
11/03
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 5:55PM
Friends -
Done my research of school district cell phone policy in a number of school districts. Here is a from a neighboring South Carolina County.
When faced with this situation, or pretty much ANY student rules violation, (outside of an actual school fight), there is basically nothing the school staff can do, IF THE STUDENT REFUSES TO COMPLY with procedures or directive of authority, except call and wait for the parents. And put up with the disruption or distraction until the parents arrive, or until the school day ends.
In the facts presented before in this case, the teacher DID ask the student to put away the cell phone, and or give it to him. The vice principal DID ask the student for the cell phone and then to leave the room. The student refused all of this. It was not stated whether or not the parents were called, but every published school cell phone policy that I read includes this in the protocol, and it's unlikely that this school would be any different. I can't imagine that things would have progressed to where they ultimately did without this parental notification component coming up. So I have to assume the parents were called.
So if the kid refuses everything, then the teachers, principals, and school just sucks it up and takes it. At least for the time being.
Those who suggested cell phone signal blockage, that's not really practical, nor does it speak to the issue. She may or may not have been texting, she may have been playing video games or doing something else with the phone. Blocking signals is not gonna effect that.
Bottom line is, there isn't much the school can do in the immediacy to maintain order and control of it's environment if a kid or kids choose not to play.
BSD


Senior Member

"In Defense of Rape and Incest" by Steve King
6995 Posts
11/13
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 6:47PM
No kidding. But teachers have always had to deal with note-passing and gum chewing--without becoming violent.
In truth, in some schools the administration is respected, and it's not much of a problem. In other schools, it's hellish. But they still don't knock the kids around.
 
All-Star Member

"You have sacrificed nothing and no one."
6309 Posts
8/10
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 7:14PM
If it were my classroom, I would have moved the rest of the class to another classroom, and continued the class there, after the school administrator (principal?) had arrived and was unsuccessful in resolving the situation -- and before the cop was involved.
I would then have contacted the parents and/or secondary contacts and waited it out.
The common thread to most of these incidents is law enforcement escalating minor matters into physical confrontations, many leading to pointless deaths -- all to settle pissing contests with their suspects -- when time and calling for backup would solve most situations.
Like the kid shot to death last week when the cop dragged him out of his car -- over a fucking driver's license -- and escalated the matter into physical violence.
Write a fucking ticket, for Christ's sake!
Check the license plate, verify he has a license (even though he didn't have it on him), and, if they are both clear and the car wasn't stolen, write a fucking ticket!

Senior Member

San Diego, CA
7122 Posts
11/03
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 8:31PM
PIEPS -
I will address you directly, because you keep snipping and parsing my posts.
You seem fixated on a particular aspect of this incident that is not in dispute, one in which no reasonable observer disagrees with you, and one which has been resolved. The security officer was wrong. The security officer needed to be fired. And the security officer was fired. I am in complete agreement with all that. I agreed with that the moment I saw the video the first time. I moved on to the primary issue, and what I see as the bigger problem. The student's role in all of this. Despite what you wrote, no TEACHER got "violent", and no SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR "knocked any kids around". They all tried to do their jobs, and by all appearances followed protocol. Yet the situation still remained intractable. The situation escalated when the cop got involved, and thankfully he's gotten his.
And as a person who spent over six years instructing in a classroom environment, (albeit NOT in a high school setting, with all the inherent immaturity and foolishness contained therein), I would argue that this situation is NOT really analogous to your example of students passing notes, or chewing gum in school many years ago. Passing notes in school and chewing gum in school was not something that the majority of kids in school were involved with, and was something easily managed by teachers. And those things certainly did not present the systemic challenges that things like technology present today. Neither I, nor the vast majority of kids I know passed notes or chewed gum in school. I would imagine that most every kid in high school has a cell phone, or a tablet, or an MP3 player with headphones or other items of personal technology with them in school now. All of which can be problematic in an educational setting. And I'm pretty sure that in years past there never had to be paragraphs and paragraphs of specific guidance, emanating from the district level, signed or acknowledged by students and parents, regarding notes in school, chewing gum, and their uses.
BSD

Edited by - BSD on 10/28/2015 9:32:36 PM

 
All-Star Member

Woman of the Decade
13923 Posts
1/08
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 8:50PM
:
I understand the girl was being disobedient, surly, I get that. It also seems she may have mental problems or be disengaged from reality, and I see that a lot in kids these days. I mean, if a cop comes into your classroom to take you away, 99% of us would come to the realization that shit has hit the proverbial fan and realize that compliance is in our best interest at that point.
However...and I've stated this a billion times in this thread in one form or another...going John Cena on an 80-pound girl is most assuredly NOT the proper response for this. I mean, we locked up Michael Vick for a couple of years for doing that to dogs, did we not?
Look at the Macaroni-And-Cheese Kid from last month, ( . Surly, belligerent, cursing, spit on one of the cafeteria workers -- he was taken down by two cafeteria staffers and then hauled off by police, with nary a scratch on him.
Cops run into these people all the time, and will continue to do so. If there ever comes a time when all of society behaves like good boys and girls, well, we won't need cops anymore. Until then, maybe, just maybe, let's find appropriate ways to handle the gum-chewing, note-passing, cell-phone having scofflaws in ways that don't

Senior Member

"In Defense of Rape and Incest" by Steve King
6995 Posts
11/13
Posted - Oct 28 2015 : 10:42PM
BSD said:
The last time I taught high school classes, in 2011, (as a sub, so even more disobedience is to be expected) there were already pretty much 100% of kids with cell phones and MP3s.
But all the pages and pages of guidance is sort of a separate issue. There are pages and pages of stuff nobody had to sign when I was first teaching in the 80's. Sexual harassment policies, lockdown procedures for possible attacks by gunmen, etc. Stuff about cell phones is not the half of it.
 
All-Star Member

4648 Posts
8/11
Posted - Oct 29 2015 : 12:08AM
Cop Slam got fired, that's good. Student was selfishly disturbing classroom. Let's hope she comes to understand her mistake.

Senior Member

San Diego, CA
7122 Posts
11/03
Posted - Oct 29 2015 : 1:39AM
ACLAYFAN -
I'm not sure that "selfishly disturbing" the classroom was this student's mistake or problem. Selfish and or disturbing\disruptive behavior can be expected in high school. Happens in every high school, every day. That's kinda what young people do on their way to full maturity. And high schools teachers and administrators are prepared for that. What is problematic here is the open and willful defiance of every level of school authority by this student. That's what can't be excused as a mistake, and what should normally result in suspension from school.
In my opinion.
BSD
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